Great Britain?

[mjw47]

Having read that I must now apologise for being rude and the name calling in some of my previous posts, if we can at least be more courteous and civil to each other on this forum, then it will be for the better .... even if we don't necessarily agree with each other

 

Likewise Michael,my apologises are extended . I do respond to a perceived insult in kind, right or wrong .

 

Don't think we will agree too much, but it doesn't matter really does it? Nothing would ever get said if we all agreed would it ? Very boring .

 

Pulling your chain on the 'nail on the head' business by the way. You had irritated me slightly & I couldn't resist it.

 

When I said earlier that I believe that we are all Equal in an intrinsic sense, I actually believe it, it's not an affectation.

 

Thing is, I really do believe that all this Royalty, Aristocracy, class crap is detrimental to the future of the country. My brother in law is an engineer who told me that on a trip to Germany he couldn't believe the amount of respect shown to him, totally different to this country.

 

Now that attitude is beneficial to a country's development & success in my opinion. All this financial service, City of London stuff is fine as far as it goes, but designing, manufacturing & marketing an actual product that contributes to someones life & that can be assessed on it's merits out classes all of that in my opinion.

[Hillpig]

So you apparently agree with Hillpig then? Both of you seem to believe that the way to show honour & respect to those people who made enormous sacrifices in order to win our freedom is to never criticize past or present actions of the state. In fact we should only ever speak positively of any historical or current event as that would besmirch our proud history, yes?

 

In other words, we should behave in precisely the manner in which we would have been FORCED to, had our parents generation lost the fight & we were currently living under a totalitarian regime?

 

And the irony in adopting this attitude is completely lost on both of you?

Went straight past, no pause for thought, WHOOOOOSH .

 

As to other country's history being tainted, already dealt with that one, try to keep up.

Not really any of my concern, two - or however many wrongs - do not make a right, remember?

 

My point which seems to have alluded your razor sharp mind, is that in order to make Britain 'Great' again the country should face up to and acknowledge past transgressions, move on & concentrate on the future without the baggage of the past. We should also attempt to resolve the class situation which I believe holds us back. Oh, & improve education for all.

 

Effectively that is what Germany & Austria have done & they seem to be prospering.

 

I am not advocating forgetting our history merely putting it in context & accepting our days of Empire are over & we are all the better for it.

 

Instead of looking backwards to what the Empire did or did not do, look at what is actually happening in the world now as a result of the Empire.

 

India, the worlds fastest growing democratic state. we gave them the civil service, removed them from the power of the Maharajahs, created a first class educational system, a democratic government and the basis of rail and road infrastructure . Also stopped widows being thrown onto funeral pyres. India has many problems, but they have a functioning democracy a massively growing economy all based on the British Empire.

 

The US, Canada, West Indies, all saved from totalitarian regimes, all democratic, prosperous and based on the systems we installed.

 

Even South Africa, a perversion under apartheid, has returned to a system of government previously enjoyed under British rule.

 

There are many other examples.

 

In the history of mankind there have been numerous empires, The British Empire is a shining example of democracy, fairness and inclusion.

 

Yes, I recognize that there were crimes and inconsistencies, we were arrogant, we truly believed in our superiority as a race. Without that arrogance or self belief we would never have achieved what we did.

 

The Empire was of its time, this country has now moved on. We are a small country but we are a great one, we should acknowledge our faults and mistakes, but overall we did a good job the world is a better place because of the British Empire, we should be proud of that.

 

---------- Post added 12-08-2013 at 11:08 ----------

 

I'm currently re-reading Churchill's account of the early part of WW2. In addiion to this I actually lived through the war. We were all concerned at the time about the non intervention of America at the start. But certain facts need to be understood. America was filled with immigrants from Europe and their descendants, a great many of them from Germany, as well as Italy. The country was still recovering from the great depression. There was little enthusiasm for sending their boys out to be killed in a war that they thought was none of their business, so while FDR realized that there was a need to get into it, Congress didn't. There was no army to talk of and they were poorly armed. However he brought lend/lease into being, sending much needed arms to Britain. All this had to be paid for by the taxpayers of America. They had a right to be repaid. Britain finally repaid in total in 2006. Loans made to Britain during the First World War were never repaid at all, and were finally written off. Some of that money could have helped the hungry unemployed during the thirties. I have answered this situation before on the forum and it seems to come up again and again. Its over and done with. They came over, many of them died at Omaha beach, and in countless B17s, and we were glad thay came.

 

I completely agree with every word you have said, my comments regarding the US do not in any way attack Roosevelt or the thousands upon thousands of brave men and women who paid with their lives.

 

My comments are directed at the military/industrial complex which effectively took over the US on the death of Roosevelt. Whilst great things were done, such as the Marshall plan, they are the people who ensured the cold war went on for 30 years, ensured we dismantled the empire and effectively took over the free world. And what a mess they have made of it.

[hyper]

...on the other hand countries like india and china are on the up

they have liitle social conscience or responsibility. They are doing now what we did in the industrial revolution albeit with newer technologies.

[mjw47]

they have liitle social conscience or responsibility. They are doing now what we did in the industrial revolution albeit with newer technologies.

 

Correct, that is exactly what they are doing & we need to get our act together in order to compete.

 

I am not holding my breath .

[Rupert_Baehr]

... I have produced things ... that are scattered across the globe ... Made In England

 

Just like McDonald's wrappers in Sheffield - but on a geographically larger scale?

 

Quite a lot of the things I've made got thrown away, too.

[ANGELFIRE1]

Great Britain. That is what we were, once upon a time. We have lost our greatness, and I doubt if we will ever regain it either.

 

Angel.

[buck]

Instead of looking backwards to what the Empire did or did not do, look at what is actually happening in the world now as a result of the Empire.

 

India, the worlds fastest growing democratic state. we gave them the civil service, removed them from the power of the Maharajahs, created a first class educational system, a democratic government and the basis of rail and road infrastructure . Also stopped widows being thrown onto funeral pyres. India has many problems, but they have a functioning democracy a massively growing economy all based on the British Empire.

 

The US, Canada, West Indies, all saved from totalitarian regimes, all democratic, prosperous and based on the systems we installed.

 

Even South Africa, a perversion under apartheid, has returned to a system of government previously enjoyed under British rule.

 

There are many other examples.

 

In the history of mankind there have been numerous empires, The British Empire is a shining example of democracy, fairness and inclusion.

 

Yes, I recognize that there were crimes and inconsistencies, we were arrogant, we truly believed in our superiority as a race. Without that arrogance or self belief we would never have achieved what we did.

 

The Empire was of its time, this country has now moved on. We are a small country but we are a great one, we should acknowledge our faults and mistakes, but overall we did a good job the world is a better place because of the British Empire, we should be proud of that.

 

---------- Post added 12-08-2013 at 11:08 ----------

 

 

I completely agree with every word you have said, my comments regarding the US do not in any way attack Roosevelt or the thousands upon thousands of brave men and women who paid with their lives.

 

My comments are directed at the military/industrial complex which effectively took over the US on the death of Roosevelt. Whilst great things were done, such as the Marshall plan, they are the people who ensured the cold war went on for 30 years, ensured we dismantled the empire and effectively took over the free world. And what a mess they have made of it.

I have this funny feeling that USSR might have had something to do with it too. Now, the Americans didn't believe in foreign countries owning other foreign countries, except maybe Puerto Rico or Guam. So they did not encourage Colonialism. But it wasn't the Americans who dismantled the Empire it was people like Mahatma Ghandi, Jomo Kenyatta, Archbishop Makarios, and others who did it. Anti colonialism hit the French, Belgians, Dutch as hard or harder than it hit UK. The Germans, who had lost any trace of their empire long before the aforementioned, came out of the war unburdened, so that with Marshall's help recovered much quicker than the Colonials did. Without trying to be insulting, I feel you are living a dream such as Rudyard Kipling envisaged. "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din" who was shot dead, blowing his bugle to rouse the regiment, and save the Captain sahib, and his memsahib. Great stuff doncherknow, except for Gunga.

[Hillpig]

I have this funny feeling that USSR might have had something to do with it too. Now, the Americans didn't believe in foreign countries owning other foreign countries, except maybe Puerto Rico or Guam. So they did not encourage Colonialism. But it wasn't the Americans who dismantled the Empire it was people like Mahatma Ghandi, Jomo Kenyatta, Archbishop Makarios, and others who did it. Anti colonialism hit the French, Belgians, Dutch as hard or harder than it hit UK. The Germans, who had lost any trace of their empire long before the aforementioned, came out of the war unburdened, so that with Marshall's help recovered much quicker than the Colonials did. Without trying to be insulting, I feel you are living a dream such as Rudyard Kipling envisaged. "You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din" who was shot dead, blowing his bugle to rouse the regiment, and save the Captain sahib, and his memsahib. Great stuff doncherknow, except for Gunga.

 

The final argument has to be, was it a good thing or a bad thing? My vote is a resounding yes. I think I have cited sufficient evidence to support this opinion. I do not live in a dream, I live in a world were the international language is English where the prevailing and increasing system of government is democracy. Where trial by jury is the prevailing legal system. All can be traced to this country and the empire we once ruled.

[buck]

The final argument has to be, was it a good thing or a bad thing? My vote is a resounding yes. I think I have cited sufficient evidence to support this opinion. I do not live in a dream, I live in a world were the international language is English where the prevailing and increasing system of government is democracy. Where trial by jury is the prevailing legal system. All can be traced to this country and the empire we once ruled.

A good deal of the reason English is spoken world wide is because America speaks it. Movies are great linguistic tools. When people fly, they usually fly in Boeings that use ATC English, which is actually American. Planes usually fly in feet, not meters, speed in knots, even Airbuses.

[Jam on it]

A good deal of the reason English is spoken world wide is because America speaks it.

 

And how did America come to speak it??