..seismic change is under way.. The death of the middle classes

[Supertramp]

 

There you go again. And you can't see why the rise of a murderous dictatorship is a bad thing? Strange.

 

No he said America was failing, not rising.

[mossdog]

Irish famine? What was that all about?

 

Scottish clearances? Who was responsible for these clearances?

 

Please do tell us about these phenomena.

Perhaps one day sunshine when you are old to understand!

 

---------- Post added 28-08-2013 at 19:02 ----------

 

Famine? Ireland exported vast quantities of milk, butter, cheese and pork throughout the potato famine. T'was the poor that starved and emigrated, and they then got exploited by slumlords in NY.

The Scots were exploited too, and there is lots of anger remaining relating to the stealing of the land, in both Ireland and Scotland, and here in England, and also in Wales.

 

 

A lot of people who emigrate here after war etc. complain at our small houses and the high cost of living.

I'd be tempted to move to Aus for a tenner, 100 acres of land there per person, compared to just one here. But also a massive property bubble and artificial scarcity of housing.

I need a beer!

[Ridgeway84]

No, you're attaching a value judgement about 'better' or 'worse' where one doesn't need to exist. They are simply a convenient way of identifying groups of people with similar backgrounds, work, incomes, interests, etc...

 

You can identify those groups without trying to say better or worse, and no amount of denying it will make those groups disappear. You might as well deny that breeds of dog exist.

 

---------- Post added 28-08-2013 at 11:58 ----------

 

Non of those things were ever certainties, you had to learn a skill in order to have any job worth having. You had to work at it and save in order to buy a house. A wife and family have always been a personal issue and continue to be so. People are better educated today than they were in the past and the welfare state as a temporary support mechanism still exists.quote]

 

Add to that world debt

Not a new thingNot happeningNot different to the past.Not happening (or at least massively exaggerated).Nothing newWe've had terrorists for a long time, nothing new.I fail to see why this is automatically bad.

You're a massive doomsayer, yet most of what you've based the doom on is either not happening, over exaggerated or situation normal.

 

A storm of normality.

 

There you go again.

[Staunton]

Perhaps one day sunshine when you are old to understand.

 

Is that another way of saying that you don't know?

[Anna B]

Famine? Ireland exported vast quantities of milk, butter, cheese and pork throughout the potato famine. T'was the poor that starved and emigrated, and they then got exploited by slumlords in NY.

The Scots were exploited too, and there is lots of anger remaining relating to the stealing of the land, in both Ireland and Scotland, and here in England, and also in Wales.

 

 

A lot of people who emigrate here after war etc. complain at our small houses and the high cost of living.

I'd be tempted to move to Aus for a tenner, 100 acres of land there per person, compared to just one here. But also a massive property bubble and artificial scarcity of housing.

 

The same thing happens today.

 

While we're sending famine relief to places like Ethiopia, they are exporting food, in order to pay off their third world debt.

 

Crazy, but then the world of global economics is crazy.

 

I'll say it again, Ethiopia and other third world countries have money sloshing around at the top, but it is reserved for the priveleged few. The thing that defines Third world countries is the huge gap between rich and poor.

 

And that's starting to happen here.

[NorthernStar]

Just couldn't get that photo from the dm storey out of my head, thought it needed a caption.

 

Sorry, I know it's ridiculous.

[Anna B]

No, you're attaching a value judgement about 'better' or 'worse' where one doesn't need to exist. They are simply a convenient way of identifying groups of people with similar backgrounds, work, incomes, interests, etc...

 

You can identify those groups without trying to say better or worse, and no amount of denying it will make those groups disappear. You might as well deny that breeds of dog exist.

 

---------- Post added 28-08-2013 at 11:58 ----------

 

Non of those things were ever certainties, you had to learn a skill in order to have any job worth having. You had to work at it and save in order to buy a house. A wife and family have always been a personal issue and continue to be so. People are better educated today than they were in the past and the welfare state as a temporary support mechanism still exists.quote]

 

Add to that world debt

Not a new thingNot happeningNot different to the past.Not happening (or at least massively exaggerated).Nothing newWe've had terrorists for a long time, nothing new.I fail to see why this is automatically bad.

You're a massive doomsayer, yet most of what you've based the doom on is either not happening, over exaggerated or situation normal.

 

A storm of normality.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you're being very complacent.

 

You only have to look back prior to 2008 to see how fast and radically the world has changed. People are being priced out of many things they took for granted back then, and there's no sign of it stopping, only getting a lot worse.

 

Back in 1999, (I remember discussing the potential 'horror stories' of the 'millenium bug' with a lady who knows about these things, so I remember the year.) Of course, the 'bug' was nothing to worry about, but she said that we had no idea what was going to hit us afterwards. She called it 'the great post millenium upheaval' and said it would take a few years to gather pace, but would be devastating.

 

First in 2000 the technology bubble burst, 2002 the twin towers were bombed, then the Iraq war, then the banking collapse which we have still not recovered from, and the really big one is still due, which apparently is going to make the 2008 problems look like a very small storm in a teacup, but the government are trying to keep a lid on it to avoid panic, but it is going to alter things in a big way.

 

We are the most indebted nation in Europe, in a far worse situation than Greece ever was and getting worse every day. Any seeming economic improvements are all down to yet more borrowing and are basically just smoke and mirrors. I don't see how we can avoid the final reckoning when it comes, and no idea how we can get out of it.

[Supertramp]

Not a new thingNot happeningNot different to the past.Not happening (or at least massively exaggerated).Nothing newWe've had terrorists for a long time, nothing new.I fail to see why this is automatically bad.

You're a massive doomsayer, yet most of what you've based the doom on is either not happening, over exaggerated or situation normal.

 

A storm of normality.

 

 

 

 

 

I think you're being very complacent.

 

You only have to look back prior to 2008 to see how fast and radically the world has changed. People are being priced out of many things they took for granted back then, and there's no sign of it stopping, only getting a lot worse.

 

Back in 1999, (I remember discussing the potential 'horror stories' of the 'millenium bug' with a lady who knows about these things, so I remember the year.) Of course, the 'bug' was nothing to worry about, but she said that we had no idea what was going to hit us afterwards. She called it 'the great post millenium upheaval' and said it would take a few years to gather pace, but would be devastating.

 

First in 2000 the technology bubble burst, 2002 the twin towers were bombed, then the Iraq war, then the banking collapse which we have still not recovered from, and the really big one is still due, which apparently is going to make the 2008 problems look like a very small storm in a teacup, but the government are trying to keep a lid on it to avoid panic, but it is going to alter things in a big way.

 

We are the most indebted nation in Europe, in a far worse situation than Greece ever was and getting worse every day. Any seeming economic improvements are all down to yet more borrowing and are basically just smoke and mirrors. I don't see how we can avoid the final reckoning when it comes, and no idea how we can get out of it.

 

Do you sit in a dark cupboard, rocking yourself to sleep? You must be the gloomiest person in the world. First World problems indeed...

[Anna B]

no, I'm not the least bit gloomy though i could see why you'd think so.

 

I love my life and want to keep it the way it is, but all these things threaten us all and it's only by warning people of what they have to lose that they might get off their arses and act.

 

We have the worst possible governments (both parties) who do not have our interests at heart, and have allowed, if not encouraged this to happen. The unelected corporate world is in charge and our governments suck up to them and cream off the top.

 

I'm angry not gloomy.

 

---------- Post added 30-08-2013 at 11:18 ----------

 

Well about time people woke up. What do you think student loans, which started as a top us were all about, if middle class parents were not being indirectly taxed for further education, for that is what it is. They will support their children so its 50K per person, per degree and more if they go for a MA or PhD. Only the well off can afford this game, and the rest become slowly impoverished.

 

Next is the game of pension robbery, where it will be discovered that financial products sold by you know who, which are valued at a price today will be found as they were in the Eurozone to be worthless bits of paper. It was the selling of financial products that have and continue to devastate the western world.

 

We all know everything has to be privatised, the NHS has to be crippled completely before it will be saved by corporate interests. We are witnessing the slow deliberate destruction of everything we valued, and its all done slowly, stealthily, over a few decades, so as not to frighten the population.

 

Its how predators work, they do not rush in but set things up slowly, and stealthily before the final push. We the population will all stand round mouths agape, like watching a building burn down, helpless to do anything and acting publicly when its too late.

 

The death of nations through the traditional 1000 cuts, and like such a demise it’s a slow lingering death.

 

Agree totally. See what I mean Supertramp? We should be hopping mad that this has been allowed to happen, but some people don't even acknowledge it is happening. They are the ones I'm calling complacent. We ALL have to act together.

[Supertramp]

no, I'm not the least bit gloomy though i could see why you'd think so.

 

I love my life and want to keep it the way it is, but all these things threaten us all and it's only by warning people of what they have to lose that they might get off their arses and act.

 

We have the worst possible governments (both parties) who do not have our interests at heart, and have allowed, if not encouraged this to happen. The unelected corporate world is in charge and our governments suck up to them and cream off the top.

 

I'm angry not gloomy.

 

---------- Post added 30-08-2013 at 11:18 ----------

 

 

Agree totally. See what I mean Supertramp? We should be hopping mad that this has been allowed to happen, but some people don't even acknowledge it is happening. They are the ones I'm calling complacent. We ALL have to act together.

 

What is happening? That post has nothing in it, its just waffle.

 

The Chamber of Commerce has just upped its tpredicted growth rate for the year so the economy is improving, all be it slowly, unemployment is falling (all be it slowly).

 

Nothing has happened to the NHS, spending on the NHS is protected even though most other departments face cuts. The threat of terrorism is very small in all reality, you're more likely to die of a cold.

 

China becoming dominant isn't any scarier than the US, in fact I'd say it is better as the US likes to project its power outwards, China looks after its own interests but doesn't go around starting wars.

 

So,...