Drugs - to legalise or not?

[Phanerothyme]

All interesting points folks; thought provoking.

 

But consider this... legalise drugs and what happens to the country? Woudl you want to be going in for an operation not knowing the surgeon is suffering from 'withdrawls'? How about this... your son/daughter gets on the school bus - could you ever really be sure the driver wasn't suffering from a major binge the night before. If drugs are legal, to what extent? What if your child / husband / wife / family member is killed becuase of one of these drug users working under the influence? Are all employers expected to conduct drug tests?

 

IMHO softer drugs, i.e. weed, mushrooms etc, should be legalised as they leave the system quickly with little / no known / proven side-effcts (of course, there are always going to be some poeple who react adversley to these chemicals, as with all chemicals).

 

People will always use drugs in one form or another, as they are just chemicals - just like food is. People like experiences, it's human nature. Why not capitalise on some of these? Imagine the typical 'townie' who drunks 10 pints at a weekend - 1 'joint' and he'd be a lot nicer person.

 

With a framework for legislation of the control, supply and use of all drugs, I think a similar thing would apply as it does to alcohol now. You still don't know whether the surgeon operating on you has alcohol withdrawal, nicotine withdrawal heroin withdrawal. Surgeons have smack habits too.

 

What needs to be actively avoided and if necessary prevented, is drug dependency. Using heroin will not hurt you, quite the opposite. That is why it is so widely used in hospitals worldwide. Dependency will hurt you, even with a free supply of pure material. Your life will recede in importance and you will return to a womblike place within yourself until you finally self-administer a lethal dose to end the pain of existence with dependency once and for all.

 

Dependency is the enemy.

 

However, dependency on caffeine is a much less serious matter. In fact a dependency on caffeine can be maintained for a whole lifetime with only minor deleterious effects.

 

There is an index of danger in two dimensions.(these are my own personal conclusions, and not 'authoritative'.

 

The first is it's acute dimension. - An acutely dangerous drug is highly toxic, so given a single 'effective' dose, a slightly larger dose might result in overdose and death. Or it might be acutely dangerous in the sense that it renders the user into a violent maniac (I don't know of a drug that reliably does this however). Or it might provoke potentially deadly sensitivities to common foods/environmental factors.

 

The second is its chronic dimension. A chronically dangerous drug is one that readily builds a physical dependency, or a debilitating psychological dependency.

Drugs that directly stimulate or sedate are chronically dangerous, as dependency comes very easily to users & the self-reinforcement of dependency can result in tolerance of doses close to the fatally toxic.

 

Quite separate from the danger is the harm index of a drug. Once you've taken it, how badly does it affect you given an effective dose?

 

The purpose of these indices is to be able to judge what the controls and penalties should be for use and misuse of any given substance.

 

There are also better and safer alternatives to street drugs in the Pharmacopia of licit substances. This, and every other administration that succeeds it, needs to grow up an accept that humanity has been happily using drugs since prehistory, has never stopped doing so in the face of prohibition, and the problems arising from this will only ever be solved if it is brought in under the aegis of legislation.

 

Whilst some drugs are prohibited, every possible piece of research or remedy into the problems arising from them are hamstrung by extra legal and bureaucratic requirements.

[TeaFan]

The Dutch appear to have worked out that prescribing heroin saves about £8,600 per patient per year when the cost of crime to fund habits is taken into account.

 

http://opioids.com/heroin/cost-cutter.html

 

A Number 10 strategy unit also reckons that the cost of crime to support cocaine and heroin habits is £16bn a year, more than the entire Home Office budget!

[Blacknight]

anyone see 'Cold Turkey' last night? That really is the last straw in human decency.

And, it's weird we can watch smack heads coming clean, but can't see an errect penis due to British censorship. How rediculous.

[depoix]

if drugs were free,then wouldnt the users get so smashed that they would not be able to work ? this would force them to steal for food,rent etc, or will they all be on benefits ? if the drugs were to be dispenced for free then what about the non drug user,is he / she still expected to pay for their own prescriptions ? well you cant keep every one happy all the time can you ? somewhere along the line everything has to be paid for by some one

[Halibut]

if drugs were free,then wouldnt the users get so smashed that they would not be able to work ? this would force them to steal for food,rent etc, or will they all be on benefits ? if the drugs were to be dispenced for free then what about the non drug user,is he / she still expected to pay for their own prescriptions ? well you cant keep every one happy all the time can you ? somewhere along the line everything has to be paid for by some one

Well I'm sure some people would get a bit crazy on the thrill of free drugs - I mean canyou imagine the state of town if they started giving beer away?

But did you see the guy on the TV programme that Blacknight referred to?

Fair play to the bloke - he was an addict working in engineering - his boss said he was reliable, a good worker and indeed, one of his "key staff".

I think depoix, that many drug addicts are capable of being much more productive and responsible members of society than they are generally given credit for and that a clean,free (or low cost) supply would only help.

You'll probably find that many users aspire to the very same things in life that "regular" folks do. Taking them out of the crisis lifestyle of continuously chasing the money for the next fix might well be a hugely liberating experience for many and help them on the path to becoming the kind of people society welcomes rather than despises or ignores.

[flyer]

No drug costs thousands to make,it takes yrs and billions to refine & test before being allowed to the general public.No drug company would ever get their money back ,unless someone else foots the bill.i.e you Mr/ Miz tax payer

[holster5]

Does anyone have experience of using heroin? There seemes to be a lot of speculation and [seemingly] blind assumptions about what it is to be a user/ addict.

 

I could not comment on this aspect of heroin use because I've never personally experienced it. However, I have worked closely with users for over 3 years and have learnt a lot.. not least the fact that heroin users are just as heterogenous a group of people as those on this forum. There are different lifestyles, personalities, income levels, relationship statuses, social classes etc that you cannot possibly generalise.

 

Going back to the original message on this thread, I do agree. Believe it or not, economically there is no long term loss if heroin were to be legalised. Drug services, local and national agencies, homeless services, detoxes, NHS funded schemes, prisons, police, ambulance services.... I could go on!

 

The money pumped into services that deal with the effects of heroin is phenomenal, and there is yet to be an agreed solution in sight. If heroin was legalised, users [as a whole... but especially the stereotypical groups mentioned so far!] would be safer, healthier, less impoverished/disadvantaged (which has a knock on effect on the economy that we all seem so concerned about), socially accepted (which improves there mental and physical health, relationships, and reduces crime levels), and recognised as people.

 

Also, from an individual user's perspective, their general lifestyles would improve tremendously. Legitimate use would lead to better service availability to help with other issues that often surround illegal heroin usage, including mental health problems, abuse, victimisation, deprivation, chronic stress, economic disadvantage, physical health problems etc. These issues are so often neglected or ignored because there is not enough understanding among health professionals and little service provision to cope. Legalised, the money pumped into services could be better controlled and used more efficiently.

 

The end?

[Phanerothyme]

Does anyone have experience of using heroin? There seemes to be a lot of speculation and [seemingly] blind assumptions about what it is to be a user/ addict.

 

Not as an addict, as a patient. It's great.

 

No drug costs thousands to make,it takes yrs and billions to refine & test before being allowed to the general public.No drug company would ever get their money back ,unless someone else foots the bill.i.e you Mr/ Miz tax payer

 

That's the case for newly minted drugs like Herceptin.

 

Heroin, Cocaine, Cannabis, Psilocybin, Mescaline, DMT, Ephedrine, Ibogaine, LSA, caffeine, atropine, scopolamine, all of these drugs come from plants of some kind. Alcohol is organic excrement.

 

Hence they are extremely cheap to produce because the plant (or yeast), powered by sunlight (or sugar/oxygen), does the difficult and expensive reserach, development and synthesis bit. And since these plants have been used for many many thousands of years, they're 'safe'. (they've been exhaustively tested).

 

Even human beings contains considerable amounts of substances that are, 'illicit drugs'.

 

Are toads illegal yet?

[holster5]

Are toads illegal yet?

 

Why? Are you a secret toad?

[Phanerothyme]

No but you can smoke toad venom - it's a psychedelic tryptamine. You need the right kind of toad though....