Feminism or Misandry?

[Cyclone]

As a matter of interest has anybody on here had any personal experience of men being paid more than women in a work place?

I am talking about a situation where they have equal qualifications, equal experience, equal time in the job and where they haven't negotiated their own pay packages (in other words jobs with collective pay bargaining).

So, the same number of hours, (no piece work) doing exactly the same job, in exactly the same location.

Salaried jobs mind. No commission based work. And just for once, no quoting stats from either side. Just what you have seen yourself.

 

It would be highly unusual in that situation to be aware of the pay of any of your colleagues. When pay is individually negotiated the company often tell you (it's not true) that discussing it with colleagues is a disciplinary offence.

 

---------- Post added 04-09-2013 at 08:15 ----------

 

Men and women have almost nothing in common except women want a man to enslave for life and man is too dumb to realise that's what's happened so goes along with it once it's too late.

 

If believing this keeps you happy and single, then you carry right on with it.

Don't delude yourself into thinking that you've figured out the single motivation for women though. From what you're posting you completely lack any insight and have no idea how anyone other than yourself thinks, and that includes other men.

 

---------- Post added 04-09-2013 at 08:18 ----------

 

I'm not trolling at all.

 

It's not possible for a woman to be a "catch" for a man because a woman could never be an asset to a man, they can only ever be liabilities because they COST money. Something that COSTS money to keep is a liability. And the better looking they are, the more they cost. This is fact, not trolling. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it less true.

 

The funny thing is that your 'logic and reason' has failed to appreciate that there are many women who for one reason or another earn far more than you ever will.

 

---------- Post added 04-09-2013 at 08:21 ----------

 

 

Women DO talk like this every single day, in hair salons, nail bars, coffee shops, gyms and all the other places of leisure they frequent.

You spend extensive time in those places listening to private conversations?

They have lots of different words for "catch" but it all means the same thing. That they can live a wonderful carefree life of leisure due to the income of a wealthy man. She married well. Well done her.

 

Lots of women do go out to work and contribute to the household, but not longterm

You base this statement on what?

and certainly not by choice and hopefully not forever.

And again?

As for cooking and cleaning, women LOVE that stuff, how do I know? Because "Home & Garden" and "Good Housekeeping" magazine are two of the most purchased magazines on the PLANET. Have you ever looked at the top 50 most purchased female magazines on the planet, it's freaking hilarious. What women want, what they care about, it's all right there and it's too funny.

And they're all identical, so if some of them like cooking, then they must all like cooking.

What do you think the phrase "you have to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince" means? Women are not talking about looks when they say this. They are searching for man to pay for their lifestyle and only a REAL man can do this. But sadly, not every woman will be able to find her prince because all the real princes want hot young women which is why rich men divorce their wives at great cost to upgrade to a newer model.

 

This is all such basic stuff, how can you guys not know this.

Because it's all just part of your personal paranoid fantasy.

[Rand Hobart]

Originally Posted by Rand Hobart View Post

As a matter of interest has anybody on here had any personal experience of men being paid more than women in a work place?

I am talking about a situation where they have equal qualifications, equal experience, equal time in the job and where they haven't negotiated their own pay packages (in other words jobs with collective pay bargaining).

So, the same number of hours, (no piece work) doing exactly the same job, in exactly the same location.

Salaried jobs mind. No commission based work. And just for once, no quoting stats from either side. Just what you have seen yourself.

 

 

 

Cyclone writes

 

It would be highly unusual in that situation to be aware of the pay of any of your colleagues. When pay is individually negotiated the company often tell you (it's not true) that discussing it with colleagues is a disciplinary offence.

 

 

 

 

You misunderstand me Cyclone.

Individuals negotiating their own pay are very much in the minority of the workforce. It is open to men being better at it than women as surveys have found. So that isn't down to sexism.

That's why I am talking about collective pay bargaining.

 

I assume that you have no personal experience of men being paid more than women (outside of the definitions in my post) either, as you didn't answer the question.

 

A pay gap purely down to sexism is not my experience. I have never seen it and have never met anybody who has. The Equal pay Act 1970 is there to stop it.

 

Women 18 to 32 yrs old who have never married and never had kids earn on average 8% more than men in the same age group, in some cities substantially more.

[HappyHoosier]

You're still making the mistake that looks make a difference. Women couldn't care less about looks if the man can give her the life she desires. Women don't see men in the same way men see women. We care about external beauty, they care about security and lifestyle.

 

So personality, intelligence, passion, respect, humor and love have no place in a marriage?

 

I'm certainly relieved to know you are not married or romantically involved -- for your sake and the sake of womankind. But you're by no means free either: You are enslaved by your bitterness, anger, distrust and cynicism. Let it go, man, and enjoy your carefree bachelor life!

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by Rand Hobart View Post

As a matter of interest has anybody on here had any personal experience of men being paid more than women in a work place?

I am talking about a situation where they have equal qualifications, equal experience, equal time in the job and where they haven't negotiated their own pay packages (in other words jobs with collective pay bargaining).

So, the same number of hours, (no piece work) doing exactly the same job, in exactly the same location.

Salaried jobs mind. No commission based work. And just for once, no quoting stats from either side. Just what you have seen yourself.

 

 

 

Cyclone writes

 

It would be highly unusual in that situation to be aware of the pay of any of your colleagues. When pay is individually negotiated the company often tell you (it's not true) that discussing it with colleagues is a disciplinary offence.

 

 

 

 

You misunderstand me Cyclone.

Individuals negotiating their own pay are very much in the minority of the workforce. It is open to men being better at it than women as surveys have found. So that isn't down to sexism.

That's why I am talking about collective pay bargaining.

 

I assume that you have no personal experience of men being paid more than women (outside of the definitions in my post) either, as you didn't answer the question.

 

A pay gap purely down to sexism is not my experience. I have never seen it and have never met anybody who has. The Equal pay Act 1970 is there to stop it.

 

Women 18 to 32 yrs old who have never married and never had kids earn on average 8% more than men in the same age group, in some cities substantially more.

 

I have never been part of collective pay bargaining. I didn't misunderstand at all, I pointed out that in situations where pay is individually negotiated, companies often do their best to dissuade people from sharing the details of their own pay. Which means I've never been party to the pay details of any of the (few, I work in IT) women that I've worked with who should have presumably been paid an equivalent salary to me, as they were doing an equivalent job.

 

Out of interest, why should their marital status make any difference?

[Arrr Sez I]

The funny thing is that your 'logic and reason' has failed to appreciate that there are many women who for one reason or another earn far more than you ever will.

 

You're just being ridiculous now. Ok maybe JK Rowling but that's literally it!

 

---------- Post added 04-09-2013 at 20:17 ----------

 

So personality, intelligence, passion, respect, humor and love have no place in a marriage?

 

But you're by no means free either: You are enslaved by your bitterness, anger, distrust and cynicism. Let it go, man, and enjoy your carefree bachelor life!

 

I suppose personality, intelligence, passion, respect, humor and love have "some" place in a marriage but I'm not paying for it with my entire life's earnings. I can get a dog if I ever feel the need for companionship but I wouldn't hold your breath. Pets are generally owned by the weak. I don't need a person or a pet to make me feel loved, I just need a mirror.

 

I've got to tell you, I don't feel enslaved, bitter or angry. I feel wonderfully free, which of course I am, which is why I feel it all day every day. It is the married man who is filled with bitter, anger and distrust. After all, he's been conned and there's no way out, well not until the wife decides to divorce him leaving him with nothing. So every cloud eh.

[Rand Hobart]

I have never been part of collective pay bargaining. I didn't misunderstand at all, I pointed out that in situations where pay is individually negotiated, companies often do their best to dissuade people from sharing the details of their own pay. Which means I've never been party to the pay details of any of the (few, I work in IT) women that I've worked with who should have presumably been paid an equivalent salary to me, as they were doing an equivalent job.

 

Out of interest, why should their marital status make any difference?

 

Sorry.

 

It makes a difference because women who have been married 18 to 32 yrs old don't make the money that puts them 8% above men in the same age bracket due to the proportion of women who go part time or stop working after marriage. Of course If they have had children then the effect is even more so.

Am I right in assuming like me you have never had personal experience of a gender wage gap, within the definitions of my post. (in other words purely down to sexism.)

For the figures talked about of women earing an average of (75% ish) of men for the same job to be true there should be millions of us seeing this in our work places. Yet nobody ever does.

Where are the massive numbers of employers being fined under the equal pay act?

Where are the millions of women shouting about their pay being less than the man working next to them.

All that we ever see is stats which are never drilled down into for hard facts.

[Cyclone]

You're just being ridiculous now. Ok maybe JK Rowling but that's literally it!

 

---------- Post added 04-09-2013 at 20:17 ----------

 

 

I suppose personality, intelligence, passion, respect, humor and love have "some" place in a marriage but I'm not paying for it with my entire life's earnings. I can get a dog if I ever feel the need for companionship but I wouldn't hold your breath. Pets are generally owned by the weak. I don't need a person or a pet to make me feel loved, I just need a mirror.

 

I've got to tell you, I don't feel enslaved, bitter or angry. I feel wonderfully free, which of course I am, which is why I feel it all day every day. It is the married man who is filled with bitter, anger and distrust. After all, he's been conned and there's no way out, well not until the wife decides to divorce him leaving him with nothing. So every cloud eh.

 

You might feel wonderfully free, but you sound bitter, twisted and a bit sociopathic.

 

---------- Post added 04-09-2013 at 21:24 ----------

 

Sorry.

 

It makes a difference because women who have been married 18 to 32 yrs old don't make the money that puts them 8% above men in the same age bracket due to the proportion of women who go part time or stop working after marriage.

Unless the study actually looked at specifically that group then you can't actually say that though, can you.

Of course If they have had children then the effect is even more so.

Am I right in assuming like me you have never had personal experience of a gender wage gap, within the definitions of my post. (in other words purely down to sexism.)

Yes, for the reasons I explained.

For the figures talked about of women earing an average of (75% ish) of men for the same job to be true there should be millions of us seeing this in our work places. Yet nobody ever does.

Where does the 75% figure come from?

Where are the massive numbers of employers being fined under the equal pay act?

Where are the millions of women shouting about their pay being less than the man working next to them.

They'd need to know that it was the case to complain.

All that we ever see is stats which are never drilled down into for hard facts.

For example?

[Michael_W]

Equal prize money at Wimbledon these days, but the Women don't have to play as many sets

[mort]

Keep it civil please

[Jam on it]

Equal prize money at Wimbledon these days, but the Women don't have to play as many sets

 

When You think about it that does actually take the ****.