Is the "Special Relationship" over

[Hillpig]

that is not why, Obama is not all that well disposed towards Britain. It is because he is the first president of the US whose father was born a British colonial subject for about 150 years - and, at a time when there was a vicous anti-colonial insurrection going in Kenya. It would be totally amazing, if Obama was particularly loved-up about Britain regardless of whether he was left wing or right wing.

 

Lincoln was the first president whose father was born an American citizen. Prior to that, all the presidents had fathers, who like Obama's were born British colonial subjects.

 

I think you may be right, his resentment, of indeed he is resentful, may hark back to that time.

 

Am I right in supposing that he has no slaves in his ancestry? I know the majority of Afro/Americans can claim slave ancestors, his memory of colonialism may be even more current.

[Harleyman]

can you not see humour when it is put in front of you?

 

Sometimes not anymore than dog meat if that were put in front of me

[buck]

i have plenty of wit, but i'm not wasting any more of it in this joyless place.

I'm sorry but I just don't like debating with links, especially when the link is the old chestnut of pseudo Chinese phonetics. It's all been done to death. My own comments were meant to be funny. They may not have been, but they were all mine. Look through my posts if you like, but you won't find a link anywhere.

[mjw47]

First of all there never was a 'special relationship'. Allies yes, but no more, or less, than other friendly countries. As Lord Palmerston said 'Nations have no permanent friends or allies they only have permanent interests'.

 

It has always been like that. When Britain was 'top dog' it behaved in exactly the same manner. If another country - no doubt acting in it's own self interest - is prepared to shed blood & spend treasure helping you out, then let them.

 

The 'special relationship' didn't prevent the USA invading Grenada, a Commonwealth Realm in 1983 without bothering to inform Britain of it's intentions.

This at a time when Reagan was President & Thatcher PM & I seem to remember a lot of none- sense at the time as to what a close relationship they enjoyed, yeah right.

 

On the front page of today's Times the main article is headed 'US leaves 'unreliable' British out in the cold'.

The article goes on to report how British military chiefs have been ejected from US meetings regarding Syria.

About 30 British military experts were working alongside US & French personnel planning strategy for the Syrian situation. According to a former British officer Britain is now 'non-reliable as far as this operation is concerned.' The US & France are proceeding together.

 

So much for 'special relationships'. No doubt we'll all be best mates again next time we agree to do as the US says. That is the way 'realpolitik' works & always has.

 

And yes, the French are the Americans oldest allies. Without their support the War of Independence may have had a different outcome.

[Harleyman]

First of all there never was a 'special relationship'. Allies yes, but no more, or less, than other friendly countries. As Lord Palmerston said 'Nations have no permanent friends or allies they only have permanent interests'.

 

It has always been like that. When Britain was 'top dog' it behaved in exactly the same manner. If another country - no doubt acting in it's own self interest - is prepared to shed blood & spend treasure helping you out, then let them.

 

The 'special relationship' didn't prevent the USA invading Grenada, a Commonwealth Realm in 1983 without bothering to inform Britain of it's intentions.

This at a time when Reagan was President & Thatcher PM & I seem to remember a lot of none- sense at the time as to what a close relationship they enjoyed, yeah right.

 

On the front page of today's Times the main article is headed 'US leaves 'unreliable' British out in the cold'.

The article goes on to report how British military chiefs have been ejected from US meetings regarding Syria.

About 30 British military experts were working alongside US & French personnel planning strategy for the Syrian situation. According to a former British officer Britain is now 'non-reliable as far as this operation is concerned.' The US & France are proceeding together.

 

So much for 'special relationships'. No doubt we'll all be best mates again next time we agree to do as the US says. That is the way 'realpolitik' works & always has.

 

And yes, the French are the Americans oldest allies. Without their support the War of Independence may have had a different outcome.

 

Did you know that the anniversary of that American invasion is now celebrated on that island as Thanksgiving Day ?

 

The problem with more that one so called Commonwealth Realm is that they haven't adapted any ideas or practices of democratic government from the Mother Country. A brutal and bloody coup preceded that invasion

 

So while they may bow to the Queen they also carry a long sharp knife hidden away in their ceremonial robes of state

[mjw47]

Did you know that the anniversary of that American invasion is now celebrated on that island as Thanksgiving Day ?

 

The problem with more that one so called Commonwealth Realm is that they haven't adapted any ideas or practices of democratic government from the Mother Country. A brutal and bloody coup preceded that invasion

 

So while they may bow to the Queen they also carry a long sharp knife hidden away in their ceremonial robes of state

 

I didn't say anything about the rights or wrongs of the invasion did I? My point was simply that the USA & the UK were allies, but Reagan didn't bother to give a courtesy call to his 'special' mate Maggie tipping her off that an invasion of a commonwealth country was about to take place. Never mind enquiring as to whether or not she had any objection.

 

The thread is about the 'Special Relationship'. I maintain there never was one.

[Harleyman]

I didn't say anything about the rights or wrongs of the invasion did I? My point was simply that the USA & the UK were allies, but Reagan didn't bother to give a courtesy call to his 'special' mate Maggie tipping her off that an invasion of a commonwealth country was about to take place. Never mind enquiring as to whether or not she had any objection.

 

The thread is about the 'Special Relationship'. I maintain there never was one.

 

I think Reagan did make a courtesy call to Maggie but due to the time difference between Washington and London Maggie was tucked up in bed sleeping soundly after her glass of warm milk.

 

Dennis took the call instead but he was already in the first stages of Alzheimers so forgot to tell her

 

I think there was something like a special relationship which took root during the war years but when China, Japan and south-east Asia began to open up for trade then the Auld Lang Synes began to fade

[mjw47]

I think Reagan did make a courtesy call to Maggie but due to the time difference between Washington and London Maggie was tucked up in bed sleeping soundly after her glass of warm milk.

 

Dennis took the call instead but he was already in the first stages of Alzheimers so forgot to tell her

 

I think there was something like a special relationship which took root during the war years but when China, Japan and south-east Asia began to open up for trade then the Auld Lang Synes began to fade

 

You made that first two paragraphs up didn't you, you little rascal .

 

As for relationships during the War, well if your fighting against a common enemy you kind of have to have some kind of co-operation don't you?

 

Everyone was cozy with Uncle Joe Stalin even though he was a mass murdering Psychopath weren't they? Needs must when the devil drives they say.

 

Point is, not only do I not believe that there was ever a 'special relationship'. I also don't believe it matters in the slightest.

 

Countries look out for their own self interest that's what politicians are elected for, what's the problem?

 

What annoys me somewhat is all the bullshyte they try to get us to swallow.

Humanitarian reasons, Weapons of Mass destruction, Moral obligation crap. Why didn't we do something about Rwanda or Zimbabwe if the West is so determined to 'do the right thing'?

 

We are allies of America, & I cannot see a scenario where that will change, but is there any chance we can be spared all the fake moralizing garbage?

 

We, like everyone else, are out for what we can get. I would like to think we try to do it whilst causing as little harm as possible, but that's probably me just being a little naive.

[blake]

I think you may be right, his resentment, of indeed he is resentful, may hark back to that time.

 

Am I right in supposing that he has no slaves in his ancestry? I know the majority of Afro/Americans can claim slave ancestors, his memory of colonialism may be even more current.

 

of course not. That was a big theme of Hilary's contest and campaign to get the nomination in 2008 with the blacks. He (Obama) is not like most African Americans. He is not descended, from slaves. Her husband Billy had cultivated this market and he and she were amazed that somebody else, was trying a different tack.

 

the Clintons missed the point. America was ready, for a black president. Only the way it turned out, not one that was descended from slaves.

 

---------- Post added 03-09-2013 at 23:57 ----------

 

I think Reagan did make a courtesy call to Maggie but due to the time difference between Washington and London Maggie was tucked up in bed sleeping soundly after her glass of warm milk.

 

Dennis took the call instead but he was already in the first stages of Alzheimers so forgot to tell her

 

I think there was something like a special relationship which took root during the war years but when China, Japan and south-east Asia began to open up for trade then the Auld Lang Synes began to fade

 

this is all that hoo haa about Grenada right. So big deal. Democratic situation in Latin America increased massively in the 1980s - they stopped being stupid dictatorships any more. And it is Reagan that deserves the credit for that and not Thatcher.

[buck]

I suppose you're rightt

First of all there never was a 'special relationship'. Allies yes, but no more, or less, than other friendly countries. As Lord Palmerston said 'Nations have no permanent friends or allies they only have permanent interests'.

 

It has always been like that. When Britain was 'top dog' it behaved in exactly the same manner. If another country - no doubt acting in it's own self interest - is prepared to shed blood & spend treasure helping you out, then let them.

 

The 'special relationship' didn't prevent the USA invading Grenada, a Commonwealth Realm in 1983 without bothering to inform Britain of it's intentions.

This at a time when Reagan was President & Thatcher PM & I seem to remember a lot of none- sense at the time as to what a close relationship they enjoyed, yeah right.

 

On the front page of today's Times the main article is headed 'US leaves 'unreliable' British out in the cold'.

The article goes on to report how British military chiefs have been ejected from US meetings regarding Syria.

About 30 British military experts were working alongside US & French personnel planning strategy for the Syrian situation. According to a former British officer Britain is now 'non-reliable as far as this operation is concerned.' The US & France are proceeding together.

 

So much for 'special relationships'. No doubt we'll all be best mates again next time we agree to do as the US says. That is the way 'realpolitik' works & always has.

 

And yes, the French are the Americans oldest allies. Without their support the War of Independence may have had a different outcome.

I suppose you're right when push comes to shove. I think it's good when two countries can talk to each other in the same language. But at the same time there is a tendency to be competitive with each other. America became Britain's ally during WW2, mainly because America would need a starting off point to open a second front. There was friendship there, but resentment too.There was no friendship at all between Britain and the Soviet Union. The Anglo/ Us alliance has stood the test of time and kept the world out of WW3 since 1945. But UK has always had a right to not become involved with America's fights and vice versa. Britain stayed out of Vietnam, the US out of Malaya, Kenya, Cyprus, Rhodesia and others without breaking up the alliance. If there ever was a special relationship, it doesn't exist today, and if there are Americans so incensed as to enjoy a new special relationship with France, they are fools.