Sheffield Town Centre What a Dump

[cuttsie]

You are perfectly free to have those details presented to you by the council if you request them .

As for me , I have no idea , only to suggest that they are far in access of what I would consider a fair return for a genuine and sincere commitment.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 15:37 ----------

 

 

Sadly, she may have been under the same preconception of how things were as I was . You visit an area expecting it to have at least a modicum of similarity. When you arrive to find it far below your expectations it does come as a shock. I have to say that it takes some time for your mind to come to some sort of rationale . Having done that , you go away and come to a conclusion.

Sandie has done that , it would appear ,based upon the area which she visited from her memories of the area which she once knew , she was disappointed . I don't think she was referring to the city as a whole.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 16:36 ----------

 

 

I think that your comments are a little unfair .

As large out of town shopping developments have taken place in every major city , Sheffield has been no exception.

With a vast expanse of land like Meadowhall having become vacant , due to the demise of the steel industry, it would have been criminal to say the least , for Sheffield City Council not to have recouped its finances on behalf of the ratepayers by " supervising " the redevelopment of the area .In doing so , it provided a transport infrastructure to serve the area .

Yes , many city's - not only here but in America, and over Europe , have seen the centres run down to the benefit of these new " out of town mall's. However , that was the way the " new style " shopping habits were being directed . Not by the city council , or even the shoppers themselves wanted . It was being foisted on them by the developers and the retail market .

 

Governments and local authority's the world over are trying to innovate new ideas to regenerate city centres and reverse their decline .

Whilst ever the shopping public patronise these monoliths of the financial market - at the expense of the demise of the city centres ( as they did with our manufacturing industries ) then we will be stuck in this continued downward spiral.

Don't be fooled into blaming the council for something that was beyond their control. They did their best in the light of this new world order . So please ! Give credit where credit is due .

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 17:14 ----------

 

 

Some of the comments you make Cuttsie have a ring of fairness in them .( I had to be somewhat " choice " in my selection of terminology there ), but I have to challenge you on your overall reasoning .

The Council, I would suggest, endeavoured to attract to the city the best advantages it could . Be it in the sporting field ie. the commonwealth games etc,. And it did so to great acclaim.

 

Many housing estates over the country have been transferred over to housing associations because the government have given much more advantage financial support for maintenance and development of those developments .

 

Land in the city centre does not belong to the city council. It merely reviews, comments , and approves or otherwise , the planning applications before it .

In doing so it endeavours to maintain some semblance of criteria of design in order to avoid a " hotch potch " of buildings as you see in some city's .

In addition its primary function in approving the foregoing is to ensure a revenue "income " in order to function financially. To do otherwise would be a dereliction of its statutorial responsability

I would therefor suggest that your criticisms would be more justifiably directed towards the national government rather than your local government.

Well I can not remember the Commonwealth Games and I know that planning is a complicated subject but I do know that millions [billions?] have been wasted on public buildings that have been deemed to be not fit for purpose after just ten ,twenty, or thirty years.

 

Your comment on "hotch potch" stiles of City centres facinates me as that is exactly the thing I find facinating about many Towns and City's that I have visited, The unexpected little street or area that one suddenly comes upon as in Barcelona , Liverpool, Paris, or may I add Sheffield[i even like the area around Cambridge and Charles St in Sheffield[ an area that is ear marked for demolition so as we can build another faceless souless glass and plastic shopping mall.

[Bypassblade]

Totally agree.

Why choose the worst part of the City Centre to walk around unless done deliberately?

You didn't bother to walk up the hill to Fargate, the peace gardens, Barkers Pool and the Devonshire quarter ?

 

---------- Post added 02-09-2013 at 09:39 ----------

 

 

The hole in the road was just that - a hive of criminality in the 70's and 80's. You wouldn't have dared walk down there during the hours of darkness.

Short memory and rose tinted specs I fear.

 

Yes that's what the HIR became we cannot deny, but when it opened and for a few years it was a beacon of forward thinking planning. We had Sheaf Market lost it, Castle Market, losing it.

 

You have to remember people have used CM for years and have their favourite places, what if these places choose not to move. Just been talking to the wife and in the new market she has been told all the food & drink places will be together, rather like Oasis in Mhall.

 

You might get a new market but you are eroding a long tradition, and creating a Styrofoam environment.

 

Why couldn't money have been spent in that area to develop the area? now the Council build a new market on the Moor. Lets face it the Moor only became the dump it did, due to the Council not developing it when they opened Meadowhall.

 

They just let everyone move from there and never back filled, hence we have the pound shops, Gregg's & the like on there now.

 

It does not hurt to remember Sheffield how it used to be and yes we have to move on, but just to let an area decay is wrong.

[Cyclone]

You can't argue that CM is now well past it's best. The options were to either redevelop it in situ or to redevelop the market area elsewhere in town. The decision was made to go with the latter.

CM will presumably be redeveloped in the future, the sooner the better.

 

I could be wrong, but wasn't CM created in the early 60's, that's not 'traditional' enough to warrant keeping such an eyesore IMO.

 

The council can't 'back fill' units, do you imagine them somehow demanding that M&S open a store?

 

---------- Post added 05-10-2013 at 08:20 ----------

 

You are perfectly free to have those details presented to you by the council if you request them .

As for me , I have no idea , only to suggest that they are far in access of what I would consider a fair return for a genuine and sincere commitment.

The difference between you and me then, is that I already know the answer to my question, whereas you have an opinion apparently based on what you imagine.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 15:37 ----------

 

 

Sadly, she may have been under the same preconception of how things were as I was . You visit an area expecting it to have at least a modicum of similarity. When you arrive to find it far below your expectations it does come as a shock. I have to say that it takes some time for your mind to come to some sort of rationale . Having done that , you go away and come to a conclusion.

Sandie has done that , it would appear ,based upon the area which she visited from her memories of the area which she once knew , she was disappointed . I don't think she was referring to the city as a whole.

Let me remind you of the thread title then

 

"Sheffield Town Centre What a Dump"

 

Except that he (I think it's a he) actually avoided visiting the majority of the town centre.

 

---------- Post added 04-10-2013 at 16:36 ----------

 

 

I think that your comments are a little unfair .

As large out of town shopping developments have taken place in every major city , Sheffield has been no exception.

With a vast expanse of land like Meadowhall having become vacant , due to the demise of the steel industry, it would have been criminal to say the least , for Sheffield City Council not to have recouped its finances on behalf of the ratepayers by " supervising " the redevelopment of the area .In doing so , it provided a transport infrastructure to serve the area .

Yes , many city's - not only here but in America, and over Europe , have seen the centres run down to the benefit of these new " out of town mall's. However , that was the way the " new style " shopping habits were being directed . Not by the city council , or even the shoppers themselves wanted . It was being foisted on them by the developers and the retail market .

Shoppers are certainly happy to shop there though.

[bullerboY]

Sheffield town centre IS a dump and no one will convince me other wise, its full of cheap rubbish shops and that also goes for the clientelle.I feel sorry for Atkinsons as they have put so much effort into staying down the moor but now the market is there all the dead beats will be attracted up there like flies round sh*t.There will be few quality shops until you get better quality customers.Yes people get dressed up to go to meadowhall because the environment is far more welcoming and a lot safer.I was in John Lewis the other day and what rubbish is for sale in there,mainly for flat dwellers and the credit card crew,talk posh no dosh.We war babies saw the best period of the town after it had been rebuilt when Adolph attempted to reshape it,there were very good quality shops there in those days because people valued money and how hard it was to come by,they bought good stuff to last not rubbish you get today.Sheffield town centre wants clearing of the chuggers and beggars so people can shop without being accosted,this city has lost its individuality and has tried to be continental without much success.We have become a city whose people do not know how to use knifes and forks anymore the objects which made Sheffield a once proud town.Well that will give fodder to the usual misfits on the forum to have a go anyhow it will keep them off the streets.

[Bypassblade]

Sheffield town centre IS a dump and no one will convince me other wise, its full of cheap rubbish shops and that also goes for the clientelle.I feel sorry for Atkinsons as they have put so much effort into staying down the moor but now the market is there all the dead beats will be attracted up there like flies round sh*t.There will be few quality shops until you get better quality customers.Yes people get dressed up to go to meadowhall because the environment is far more welcoming and a lot safer.I was in John Lewis the other day and what rubbish is for sale in there,mainly for flat dwellers and the credit card crew,talk posh no dosh.We war babies saw the best period of the town after it had been rebuilt when Adolph attempted to reshape it,there were very good quality shops there in those days because people valued money and how hard it was to come by,they bought good stuff to last not rubbish you get today.Sheffield town centre wants clearing of the chuggers and beggars so people can shop without being accosted,this city has lost its individuality and has tried to be continental without much success.We have become a city whose people do not know how to use knifes and forks anymore the objects which made Sheffield a once proud town.Well that will give fodder to the usual misfits on the forum to have a go anyhow it will keep them off the streets.

 

Yes it may be a shabby place to be, filled with cheap shops; but sorry not everyone that frequents town is cheap and shabby, as you purport. Town has been left too long to erode and undesirables allowed to move in, and SCC keeps giving us false promises made of BS.

 

I still prefer if I could go to town, M'hall is just so sterile and false, and is still full of pram pushing dicks.

[bullerboY]

Yes it may be a shabby place to be, filled with cheap shops; but sorry not everyone that frequents town is cheap and shabby, as you purport. Town has been left too long to erode and undesirables allowed to move in, and SCC keeps giving us false promises made of BS.

 

I still prefer if I could go to town, M'hall is just so sterile and false, and is still full of pram pushing dicks.

Go down the Moor open your eyes spot some one dressed up and they will have just come from Mars,any how i didnt say everyone i said clientelle,cheap shops = cheap people.Wonder why Harvey Nicks did'nt open up down the moor instead of T J Hughes!City on the move ,yes down.

 

---------- Post added 05-10-2013 at 12:38 ----------

 

I dont know why we dont just give the town centre to the university they will soon show how to down it quick and shove up futuristic buildings they would soon clear away the mess this council have made of this city.It would then become a window cleaners heaven,at least then it will be clean.

[darra]

I would like to know your background Buller boy because you appear to have a very low opinion of people or perhaps a high opinion of yourself. It's a sad fact of life that a lot of town centres are run down with shops opening and closing with great regularity. Doesn't make the people down and outs.

[Bypassblade]

Go down the Moor open your eyes spot some one dressed up and they will have just come from Mars,any how i didnt say everyone i said clientelle,cheap shops = cheap people.Wonder why Harvey Nicks did'nt open up down the moor instead of T J Hughes!City on the move ,yes down.

 

---------- Post added 05-10-2013 at 12:38 ----------

 

Er this is what you said

 

Sheffield town centre IS a dump and no one will convince me other wise, its full of cheap rubbish shops and that also goes for the clientelle

This means it's full of cheap people & shops, you cannot change the written word, when it suits. I said it wasn't I used to go down the moor often when well, and I saw lots of people smartly dressed. In fact I have a mate who goes on the moor before every home game & he won't pay less than £100 for a top.

 

That certainly ain't shabby, I think you must be either a snob or a berk, what is this propensity that people have with Harvey Nicks what's so bloody special about it.

[mikebatty]

Well I can not remember the Commonwealth Games and I know that planning is a complicated subject but I do know that millions [billions?] have been wasted on public buildings that have been deemed to be not fit for purpose after just ten ,twenty, or thirty years.

 

Your comment on "hotch potch" stiles of City centres facinates me as that is exactly the thing I find facinating about many Towns and City's that I have visited, The unexpected little street or area that one suddenly comes upon as in Barcelona , Liverpool, Paris, or may I add Sheffield[i even like the area around Cambridge and Charles St in Sheffield[ an area that is ear marked for demolition so as we can build another faceless souless glass and plastic shopping mall.

 

I think that you are right about some of the buildings around cambridge street , Charles street and Cross Burgess street. Maybe the whole of that area , ie ., from the top of the Moor , right away down to the bottom of high street should have a preservation order on it and that all developments should use the existing facade of of the building .

What I meant about the "hotch potch " styles was where a modern building between a group of georgian , Victorian or, even worse , Tudor buildings would be regarded as sheer vandalism .

There are exceptions of course . Where a building is structurally incapable of such a renovation then the answer is clear . If it is totally unsound and a danger to the public then again , there is a clear solution .

Take the Post Office building in Fitzallan Sq./ Flat street . The morons at the regional H Q. in Leeds wanted to demolish the building and redevelop the whole area . Obviously a financial advantage to them - Not what we wanted though .

As Chair of the Environmental Planning at the time I pushed for for a refusal and, applied for listing , which we received . That was in 1975 , or thereabouts . However , nearly 40 years on , one of the major focal points of the city centre is to be redeveloped whilst retaining the facade .

In essence what I am saying is . If there are sufficient number of you who object , them motivate yourselves . You don't let 80 members of the council tell a city of over half a million people what they should do . I is about a city of over half a million people telling the 86 or so , councillors who you are paying, what they should do - THAT IS DEMOCRACY.

 

" by the way , I bet some of these on here don't get their repeats from BOOTS. Shhhh! I'm sure they are on a high !

 

---------- Post added 05-10-2013 at 13:38 ----------

 

Go down the Moor open your eyes spot some one dressed up and they will have just come from Mars,any how i didnt say everyone i said clientelle,cheap shops = cheap people.Wonder why Harvey Nicks did'nt open up down the moor instead of T J Hughes!City on the move ,yes down.

 

---------- Post added 05-10-2013 at 12:38 ----------

 

Er this is what you said

 

Sheffield town centre IS a dump and no one will convince me other wise, its full of cheap rubbish shops and that also goes for the clientelle

This means it's full of cheap people & shops, you cannot change the written word, when it suits. I said it wasn't I used to go down the moor often when well, and I saw lots of people smartly dressed. In fact I have a mate who goes on the moor before every home game & he won't pay less than £100 for a top.

 

That certainly ain't shabby, I think you must be either a snob or a berk, what is this propensity that people have with Harvey Nicks what's so bloody special about it.

 

Get a load of that !

Doe's that include whatever you are on ?

[katerina]

I think Sheffield changed when they introduced the Trams. Was there last year and it seems disjointed with little bits all over the place...oh and lots of concrete:(