Term time school holidays

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Anna B said:

Travel is an excellent oportunity for learning.

I always gave my pupils an exercise book to keep a diary, with questions they had to find the answers to pertaining to the country they were visiting, things they had to collect including a map etc,  and when they returned give a presentation also to include a smattering of the language.  

Not that I know the first thing about this, but surely the kids are following a teaching plan for each subject, one that builds upon previous weeks' lessons, especially in a subject like maths.  Take the kid out of class for two weeks and you have a hole, or at least lag, that can't be filled by something that sounds like an unrelated extracurricular activity that parents might use with their kids in their spare time (though perhaps without the presentation, unless you have a particularly enthusiastic kid working on a area of special interest.  Like dinosaurs, or influencers of TikTok, or whatever they're in to these days).

Edited June 16, 2022 by Guest

[RJRB]

@Hecate

That was certainly the case in my school days.

The only time that I had off was due to being smitten with jaundice.

I missed a couple of weeks schooling which included calculating square roots(no calculators available then) and that remained a mystery for me for some years.

I can do them now.

[Anna B]

6 hours ago, RJRB said:

That all sounds very correct but superficial.

How many of your pupils went on foreign holidays or even domestic ones.

Ideally primary school education should provide the basic language and numerical skills and of course discipline and social skills.

Should a primary school pupil require extracurricular tuition in school subjects.

I think it better that the time away from school is used for their own pursuits and time with their pals.

Homework for me started at age 11, by which time I just about accepted it as a necessary evil.

 

Often, I was asked for something by the parents.

 

I think education would be very dull for kids if it was all 'reading, writing and arithmetic.'

Teachers try to make it interesting and use different approaches, however all those things were covered in a real life holiday situation. 

Eg, What sort of money do they use in ........ ? How much is a chocolate bar? What would that be in English money? 

What are these (supermarket) items called in Spanish? How much do they cost? How far have you travelled?

 

Writing is covered by keeping a diary.  And providing them with a school reader to take with them covered reading. Confidence is built by having to present to the children, and speak to a group, but that could just be as simple as reading their journal out loud, or showing objects they'd collected, and answering the kids questions etc depending on the child. Teachers are sensitive to a child's stress points.

Plus of course lots of other things. Travel broadens the mind, and holiday time with parents be it at home, or on holiday in England, or anywhere else is also important. 

 

The Feedback I got was generally very positive, in fact the parents said it opened their minds to things they could do with them themselves. I also agree that holidays should be relaxing and stress free, so the tasks weren't onerous, and designed to be light and enjoyable, but they were out of school in term time so I think it was appropriate to ask them to do something and provide a focus.

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Anna B

[ECCOnoob]

7 hours ago, Hecate said:

Not that I know the first thing about this, but surely the kids are following a teaching plan for each subject, one that builds upon previous weeks' lessons, especially in a subject like maths.  Take the kid out of class for two weeks and you have a hole, or at least lag, that can't be filled by something that sounds like an unrelated extracurricular activity that parents might use with their kids in their spare time (though perhaps without the presentation, unless you have a particularly enthusiastic kid working on a area of special interest.  Like dinosaurs, or influencers of TikTok, or whatever they're in to these ).

I'm inclined to agree with this.

 

Whilst I I'm not wholly dismissive of comments from other posters and agree that travel could broaden the mind...... I would emphasise the word "could".

 

For all genuine benefit to a child learning about foreign culture, different words, different signs, monetary skills, social interaction......etc  I am not wholly convinced that little Darren or Brittany are going to have a fulfilled educating excursion on their two week all inclusive to Benidorm or some trip to a shared apartment with the parents best mate from the pub.

 

All feels a little bit of a cop-out for parents who are wanting to simply take advantage of cheaper holidays.  Well tough.  Unfortunately, the reality is having kids is a choice.  A financial one is a big factor.  The law is clear on mandatory education and thus for parents choosing to breed that means sacrifices need to be made.

 

As others have said, why should the teachers have to pick up the slack for parental convenience.  They are there to teach a scheduled, planned and well-rounded curriculum. Ad hoc days out are one thing but it is very obvious why these fines had to be implemented as clearly too many coincidental absences were on the increase.

 

Looking at the wider picture, lets also not forget how incredibly privileged we are in this country to have a mandatory taxpayer-funded education for all children. Look at what happens in other countries and the lengths people have to go through to get their kids into any sort of schooling . Our privilege is well and truly shown when parents take this wonderful free education for granted just because they want a nice little cheap trip to the sun.

Edited June 16, 2022 by ECCOnoob

[hackey lad]

19 hours ago, Anna B said:

Travel is an excellent oportunity for learning.

I always gave my pupils an exercise book to keep a diary, with questions they had to find the answers to pertaining to the country they were visiting, things they had to collect including a map etc,  and when they returned give a presentation also to include a smattering of the language.  

Yes , Benidorm is a real eye opener 

[Chekhov]

11 hours ago, RJRB said:

That all sounds very correct but superficial.

How many of your pupils went on foreign holidays or even domestic ones.

Ideally primary school education should provide the basic language and numerical skills and of course discipline and social skills.

Should a primary school pupil require extracurricular tuition in school subjects.

I think it better that the time away from school is used for their own pursuits and time with their pals.

Homework for me started at age 11, by which time I just about accepted it as a necessary evil.

Many schools, particularly public schools (or sometimes state schools in rich areas....), organise foreign holidays for their primary school pupils.

I wonder why they do that ?

[Chekhov]

11 hours ago, sibon said:

Because my staff and I had enough work to do, without doing extra so that a parent could go for a cheap scuba diving holiday. I think that it is totally unfair of parents to expect teachers to do extra work to facilitate a cheap holiday.

I have a few suggestions for you, if you want to take your kid out of school:

1. Don’t do anything. Just have a gap in knowledge.

2. Ask mini Justin’s best friend to note down what happens in each lesson. You can then help him catch up.

3. Email another parent and ask them to photocopy notes, exercise books, worksheets etc. Then you can help him catch up.

4. Employ a private tutor and factor the cost into the price of your “cheap” holiday.

But please don’t pretend that asking a teacher to sort everything out for you is “five minutes to jot down a few ideas”.

Utter BS. Nobody is asking for a detailed resume, all we'd be asking is what they're doing in class at the moment, should take less than 5 minutes. A public school would be only too pleased to do that, but some cynics would say that might be linked to the fact they appear to give a much better education.

Cynics might also say the schools actually owe them about 7 months of learning, a few minutes is sweet FA.

No, I think it's far more down to you wanting to make a point, combined with the fact that, for all your virtue signalling, you don't actually seem to care much about your pupils.

 

I cannot help wondering that one of the reasons some teachers might be so vindictive about kids taking even a measly one week off in term time (absolutely nothing compared to the 30 weeks schools have recently been shut, and with your blessing.....) is they have to take their holidays at the most expensive time as well, so really object to anyone else manging to save a shed load of money.

A bit if truth in that I feel, particularly since you have written this, positively dripping in sarcasm and unpleasantness :

 

"so that a parent could go for a cheap scuba diving holiday

 

2. Ask mini Justin’s best friend to note down what happens in each lesson. You can then help him catch up."

Edited June 16, 2022 by Chekhov

[Guest sibon]

4 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

Utter BS. Nobody is asking for a detailed resume, all we'd be asking is what they're doing in class at the moment, should take less than 5 minutes.

Cynics might say the schools actually owe them about 7 months of learning, a few minutes is sweet FA.

 

Can’t you express yourself without (masked) swearing? It doesn’t lend a very mature tone to your “argument “.

 

Its simple really, Justin. Take your kid out of school if you wish. Your choice, but the consequences are also yours. I gave you some strategies to deal with the consequences. No need to thank me.

 

Don’t bother the teachers though. They’ve enough to do without facilitating cut price, middle class, jaunts to the sun.

[Guest sibon]

27 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

A public school would be only too pleased to do that, but some cynics would say that might be linked to the fact they appear to give a much better education.

 

You might want to do a bit of research about that.

 

Enrol mini Justin at Birkdale and see what happens when you ask for time off to go scuba diving.

Let us know how you get on.

[Anna B]

We are beginning to drill down to the heart of the debate that rages in education - what is it for?

Is it to pass exams, or to produce well rounded, educated, confident individuals? 

 

And how do you achieve it? Is it a 'one size fits all' curriculum with no deviations, or do you respond to a child's individual  needs and rate of learning by using the things they are interested in to stimulate learning?

 

Of course the obvious answer is 'both,' but children are incredibly different from one another, and in a classroom of 30+ pupils, and with exams throughout, 'both' isn't always an option. There are as many people out there who had a miserable experience at school by being forced into a learning style that didn't suit them, and are so put off by it, they refuse to engage with learning later in life. And then there are those who enjoyed it all, can't get enough of it, and see learning as a life long adventure.