Term time school holidays

[Guest]

On 21/05/2023 at 09:13, Chekhov said:

The Tory government is probably more left wing than Blair's Labour party, see :

I Haven't Changed My Politics, It's Society And Politics That Has Changed

Starmer claims he's going to be  "Blair on steroids"  so your best bet now is to start voting Labour and leave "the lefties" behind.

[Annie Bynnol]

1 hour ago, Thorpist said:

if the pupils who took holidays in term time were then were required to attend school during the school holiday period (shouldering the the cost amongst all the attenders) problem sorted . Perhaps when parents see the actual cost of teaching a pupil for a week they would change their minds on taking them out of school.

The teacher is expected to attend at all times during term time ,why not pupils?

   I agree in principle, however as the child has no say it should not be just a matter of what they can afford. 

   The  Parent(s)/Guardian who withdraw their children from education  should cover the cost of the schooling required to 'catch up' on the programme provided to the other children. This would include the cost of tuition. material, assessments and practical work. The costs should be paid upfront so that everything is in place for their child's return. If assessment targets are not met it should be assumed that the Parent(s)/Guardian have failed in their legal duties and should be fined accordingly under the current legislation. 

   There are exceptions(there is a list) but trips, jollies and holidays are not. 

    

    

    

[Chekhov]

4 hours ago, Thorpist said:

if the pupils who took holidays in term time were then were required to attend school during the school holiday period (shouldering the the cost amongst all the attenders) problem sorted . Perhaps when parents see the actual cost of teaching a pupil for a week they would change their minds on taking them out of school.

The teacher is expected to attend at all times during term time ,why not pupils?

A few points here.

 

What about the strikes ? Did the teachers get fined for that ?

 

Teachers are paid to attend school, whereas parents pay (via their taxes) for their kids to attend. Although, as I may have mentioned before, many kept paying for their kids to go to school all the way through the 7 month Covid school shut down, but got no schooling for that money.

 

>>The teacher is expected to attend at all times during term time ,why not pupils?<<

 

Whilst I have never spoken (face to face) with any parent who agrees with fining parents for taking kids - with an otherwise excellent attendance record - out of school for  a week a year, I have never met any who think parents of persistent truants should get away with it.

But, and many people (esp on the left) do not want to admit this, it's easier to go after the middle class parents than the anti social types.

When I say "middle class" I mean any parent who is very bothered about the education of their kids, which is most parents.

[HeHasRisen]

2 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

A few points here.

 

What about the strikes ? Did the teachers get fined for that ?

 

 

You are aware that people arent paid by their employers during strikes, dont you? Is that not "fine" enough?

Teachers also arent legally required to be in school so where is the mechanism to "fine" them, you have used this strawman argument before.

 

Also, teachers dont decide if to fine people, that will be the headmaster/LEA or both.

Edited May 24, 2023 by HeHasRisen

[Annie Bynnol]

16 minutes ago, Chekhov said:

A few points here.

 

What about the strikes ? Did the teachers get fined for that ?

 

Teachers are paid to attend school, whereas parents pay (via their taxes) for their kids to attend. Although, as I may have mentioned before, many kept paying for their kids to go to school all the way through the 7 month Covid school shut down, but got no schooling for that money.

 

>>The teacher is expected to attend at all times during term time ,why not pupils?<<

 

Whilst I have never spoken (face to face) with any parent who agrees with fining parents for taking kids - with an otherwise excellent attendance record - out of school for  a week a year, I have never met any who think parents of persistent truants should get away with it.

But, and many people (esp on the left) do not want to admit this, it's easier to go after the middle class parents than the anti social types.

When I say "middle class" I mean any parent who is very bothered about the education of their kids, which is most parents.

     Missing five days a year is nowhere near an "...excellent attendance record...".  Excellent is 100%. Removing a child from school is not something a responsible 'bothered' parent does unless the circumstances are exceptional- even self styled 'middle class' ones.  Parents express their 'care' in many ways and a claim that only middle class parents are "...very bothered about the education of their kids..." is ignorant and frankly insulting to the millions who struggle to provide and guide their children in difficult circumstances.  'Middle class' parents don't think they have a right to remove their children from school and are no more or less selfish in denying their children education than any other 'group'. They all have similar excuses.

     

[Chekhov]

18 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

     Missing five days a year is nowhere near an "...excellent attendance record...".  Excellent is 100%. Removing a child from school is not something a responsible 'bothered' parent does unless the circumstances are exceptional- even self styled 'middle class' ones.  Parents express their 'care' in many ways and a claim that only middle class parents are "...very bothered about the education of their kids..." is ignorant and frankly insulting to the millions who struggle to provide and guide their children in difficult circumstances.  'Middle class' parents don't think they have a right to remove their children from school and are no more or less selfish in denying their children education than any other 'group'. They all have similar excuses.

Total cobblers.

Quite apart from anything else I seem to remember you were supportive of all the Covid suppression measures and kids missing 7 months of school, and as such you're a hypocrite.

But I'd like to know who all these people are pontificating on here, because as I may have mentioned before, I have never, and I mean never, met anyone (face to face) who come out with this guff.

 

You also talk like there is no cost to kids being stopped from going on holiday.

We are going to S Korea, AUS and NZ. We have to go for three weeks and we have to go in our winter.

Even if one ignored all the hypocrisy, preventing my child from going on such a trip would affect his life experience, or, to put it another way, his education.

 

>>Excellent is 100%.<<

 

Only kids with 100% attendance have an excellent attendance record ?

Really ?

What about those who missed 7 months of school, wouldn't that be under 50% ?

How would you describe that ?

 

>>Parents express their 'care' in many ways and a claim that only middle class parents are "...very bothered about the education of their kids..."<<

 

You're not reading what you are replying to (not for the first time) :

 

When I say "middle class" I mean any parent who is very bothered about the education of their kids, which is most parents.

 

The bottom line is our lad gets more than two weeks worth of extra tuition at home and is doing just fine at school, certainly in all the subjects that matter (not so well in art I have to say....).

Edited May 24, 2023 by Chekhov

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Chekhov said:

Total cobblers.

Quite apart from anything else I seem to remember you were supportive of all the Covid suppression measures and kids missing 7 months of school, and as such you're a hypocrite.

But I'd like to know who all these people are pontificating on here, because as I may have mentioned before, I have never, and I mean never, met anyone (face to face) who come out with this guff.

 

You also talk like there is no cost to kids being stopped from going on holiday.

We are going to S Korea, AUS and NZ. We have to go for three weeks and we have to go in our winter.

Even if one ignored all the hypocrisy, preventing my child from going on such a trip would affect his life experience, or, to put it another way, his education.

 

>>Excellent is 100%.<<

 

Only kids with 100% attendance have an excellent attendance record ?

Really ?

What about those who missed 7 months of school, wouldn't that be under 50% ?

How would you describe that ?

 

>>Parents express their 'care' in many ways and a claim that only middle class parents are "...very bothered about the education of their kids..."<<

 

You're not reading what you are replying to (not for the first time) :

 

When I say "middle class" I mean any parent who is very bothered about the education of their kids, which is most parents.

 

The bottom line is our lad gets more than two weeks worth of extra tuition at home and is doing just fine at school, certainly in all the subjects that matter (not so well in art I have to say....).

The bottom line is,  that you want to be different and do your own thing no matter what.

It's always about pleasing Chekhov because he doesn't like rules.

 

By the way "middle class" has nothing whatsoever to do with parents bothering about education.

All parents, of whatever class should be bothered about their children's education  including those who like holidays.

You are arguing on another thread that people should behave and observe the law.  You obviously mean other people,  and that this doesn't apply to you.

I do feel sorry for your kid,  having to make sense of two different rules of behaviour when one is hard enough in this modern world.

 

Are you for,  or against,  breaking the rules ????????

simple question

[Annie Bynnol]

3 hours ago, Chekhov said:

Total cobblers.

Quite apart from anything else I seem to remember you were supportive of all the Covid suppression measures and kids missing 7 months of school, and as such you're a hypocrite.

But I'd like to know who all these people are pontificating on here, because as I may have mentioned before, I have never, and I mean never, met anyone (face to face) who come out with this guff.

...

   Do you need to reminded again that I have not 'supported' Government measures taken to suppress Covid.  Your personally derived version of  "...Covid suppression measures..." however do require scrutiny. I have previously asked you to substantiate  this and you have  failed to provide any evidence.  In any case in the real world most people just didn't go round volubly taking sides and supporting this or that in a pandemic

    Surely  'middle class'  parents who are so  "...very bothered about the education of their kids..."would not remove their children from school for weeks at a time particularly as they 'lost' months during closures. 

[Chekhov]

 

6 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

     Missing five days a year is nowhere near an "...excellent attendance record...".  Excellent is 100%.

Right, an academic year is 39 weeks. Missing 1 week (even if it is for no personal, social, familial or educational benefit, which is never the case anyway) would constitute 2.6%. Or an attendance rate of 97.4%. 

More to the point, after they kept kids off school for 7 months, why are they pursuing parents who take their kids off for one poxy week when they have caused this avalanche of serious absenteeism ?? I think we know, because they are an easy target.

Most hypocritical of all is Michael Gove who first introduced the fines, he was an arch supporter of all the suppression of society, including in education.

 

The Times, Mon 22 May 2023, p14

 

1.7m pupils regularly miss school

Data shows that the number of children severely absent from school was still far above pre-pandemic levels.

A rise in mental health problems and a culture of staying at home during lockdowns are thought to be among reasons that the number of children absent more than 50% of the time has doubled since the start of the pandemic.

Persistent absence is defined as missing more than 10% of the school year [approx four times 2.7%] and the rate for that has almost doubled from 13% before the pandemic to 24% now.

 

I would only add that I reckon many parents are more likely to take their kids out of school because they think (possibly subconsciously) well, if the government thought it acceptable for pupils to miss 7 months schooling, then 1 or 2 weeks cannot possibly be that significant. And they're right.

 

4 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

The bottom line is,  that you want to be different and do your own thing no matter what.

It's always about pleasing Chekhov because he doesn't like rules.

Again you ignore the fact I often speak for the majority. I certainly do on this subject.

I can only repeat I have never, repeat never, spoken to any parent (face to face) who agrees with parents who take their kids out of school for one poxy week out of 39 being fined. And opinion on that has hardened still further after the government shut the schools for seven bleedin' months for a virus kids were at no risk from.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Chekhov

[Chekhov]

4 hours ago, Organgrinder said:

Are you for,  or against,  breaking the rules ????????

simple question

You are suffering from an inaccurate view of me.

 

Being forced to wear a mask ?
I am for breaking that rule yes.

 

Being forced to get vaccinated ?

I am for breaking that rule yes.

 

Being stopped from videoing ones own child racing in a gala ?

I am for breaking that rule yes.

 

Being fined for taking ones child out  of school for a fabulous holiday ?

I am for breaking that rule yes (but not lying about it : "my child is ill", that sets a bad example).

 

Being stopped from travelling internationally for no good reason (it made no soddin' difference whatsoever) ?

I am for breaking that rule yes.

 

I could go on but my point is made.

50 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

   Do you need to reminded again that I have not 'supported' Government measures taken to suppress Covid.  Your personally derived version of  "...Covid suppression measures..." however do require scrutiny. I have previously asked you to substantiate  this and you have  failed to provide any evidence.  In any case in the real world most people just didn't go round volubly taking sides and supporting this or that in a pandemic

Sorry, possible breakdown in communication.

I am delighted if you aren't actually one of those who supported, and still support, the suppression of society to try (unsuccessfully as it happened) to suppress Covid.