Should the veil be banned in schools?

[Zamo]

You phrase this in a dishonest way to suggest that a ban on mask wearing exists. It doesn't.

 

The fact is that if you wore a hoodie, hat or scarf in a courtroom then the judge would tell you to remove it. In schools, teachers would also ask pupils to remove such items whilst indoors. In both cases it would be a case of maintain good manners and security.

 

These 'rules' may or may not be written, or backed up in law, but bans on wearing items that mask the face are none the less real.

[L00b]

Personally I don't believe the state should interfere with what we wear,

The state already does that aplenty.

 

Though not for secular reasons at all.

unless the garment contains slogans which are highly likely to cause a breach of the peace.

What about instances wherein the garment itself, absent any such slogans or pictograms, is highly likely to cause a breach of the peace?

 

E.g. this (CAUTION - may not be SFW, and/or may cause mug-to-keyboard/screen spillage - all responsibilty, real or averred, disclaimed absolutely).

 

A fair question (and not meant to be loaded): that counter-point was raised earlier in the thread in respect of scantily clad young things

[Kthebean]

Good point Kthebean but existing legislation can be used to deal with parents who keep their children from school.

 

Absolutely, but theres nothing to stop parents home educating, sending their children to religious private school or even sending the child abroad for education.

 

If a person is mental pious enough to make a child wear a shroud, I think every effort should be made to keep that child in mainstream education regardless of their clothing.

[boyfriday]

Well that's just the whole point. If you don't wish to or have any desire to converse or communicate face to face with them you are entitled to ignore them, which presumably is what most of the women would prefer.

But the issue is about those who have to when communication is a requirement. I've had to communicate with women wearing a face veil, both through choice and at work, and its difficult to do that effectively when the face is hidden, It can be far more so then when language is a barrier in communication, because communication is a two way process and facial expressions can reveal so much about a person.

 

I think you've just reiterated the point I was making Janie48!

 

---------- Post added 16-09-2013 at 14:47 ----------

 

The state already does that aplenty.

 

Though not for secular reasons at all.

What about instances wherein the garment itself, absent any such slogans or pictograms, is highly likely to cause a breach of the peace?

 

E.g. this (CAUTION - may not be SFW, and/or may cause mug-to-keyboard/screen spillage - all responsibilty, real or averred, disclaimed absolutely).

 

A fair question (and not meant to be loaded): that counter-point was raised earlier in the thread in respect of scantily clad young things

 

That's a good example but covered by the legislation relating to decency, it's not what he's wearing it's what he's showing that creates the problem, if indeed there is one!

 

Even with public nudity we're becoming less 'outraged' by it, I mentioned the naturist bike ride on the other thread..a whole convoy of naked bike riders meandering down Eccy Road. They caught a few shocked glances but not a copper in sight looking for arrestable offences!

 

---------- Post added 16-09-2013 at 14:48 ----------

 

thats a poor answer even for you

 

I'm guessing the guffawing means you don't have a compelling answer?

[truman]

Even with public nudity we're becoming less 'outraged' by it, I mentioned the naturist bike ride on the other thread..a whole convoy of naked bike riders meandering down Eccy Road. They caught a few shocked glances but not a copper in sight looking for arrestable offences

 

I wonder what would happen if you tried to do that in a school? (which is what the thread is about.. not the naked bit of course but what is worn in school )

[SevenRivers]

The veil is a symbol of modesty. Why don't you look up immodest in the dictionary?

 

I'll save you the job.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immodest?s=t

 

adjective

1.

not modest in conduct, utterance, etc.; indecent; shameless.

 

— adj

1. indecent, esp with regard to sexual propriety; improper

2. bold, impudent, or shameless

 

So if modest is wearing a veil, for girls/women that don't wear the veil, this is what you are. You are indecent, improper and shameless. This is what the veil symolises - intolerance.

[boyfriday]

Slight deviation from the OP, but the burka wearing court woman must remove her veil during her trial.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24112067

[boyfriday]

The veil is a symbol of modesty. Why don't you look up immodest in the dictionary?

 

I'll save you the job.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immodest?s=t

 

adjective

1.

not modest in conduct, utterance, etc.; indecent; shameless.

 

— adj

1. indecent, esp with regard to sexual propriety; improper

2. bold, impudent, or shameless

 

So if modest is wearing a veil, for girls/women that don't wear the veil, this is what you are. You are indecent, improper and shameless. This is what the veil symolises - intolerance.

 

So what?! You can't legislate over what people THINK!

[L00b]

That's a good example but covered by the legislation relating to decency

I know, and was my exactly point: it's one humorous example, amongst innumerable further humorous and not-so-humorous-at-all examples, of the State (in fact, a society expressing its collective will as-) long having had a hand in dictating what people can wear or not.

 

Whether for decency-related reasons (see also e.g. the Wiki page, Britain section, in relation to censored T-shirts (not linking it here due to profanity)), health and safety reasons, military code reasons, and still more. The list is as long as my arm, and then some.

 

It's a polarising issue, with no easy answer (well...if you don't want to hurt anyone's sensibilities, that is). Let's hope it gets sorted, before it comes to deciding whether prohibiting this on UK roads "oppresses" certain female muslim drivers (joke!)

[OPEN BORDERS]

The veil is a symbol of modesty. Why don't you look up immodest in the dictionary?

 

I'll save you the job.

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/immodest?s=t

 

adjective

1.

not modest in conduct, utterance, etc.; indecent; shameless.

 

— adj

1. indecent, esp with regard to sexual propriety; improper

2. bold, impudent, or shameless

 

So if modest is wearing a veil, for girls/women that don't wear the veil, this is what you are. You are indecent, improper and shameless. This is what the veil symolises - intolerance.

 

Intolerance being the key word. This is what its all about.

Its all part of the 'bigger' agenda.