Policing EDL at Lane Top

[petecob]

The counter protest will just become a spark to trouble, you know, we all know it,

and because of that, you dont look good in our eyes, your just another idiotic group causing trouble where we dont want it, increasing police costs and therefore passing the debt on to us, and also risk of more police cuts as they have to manage there budget.

 

And then theres the EDL, go away, there have been so many groups by different names over the years, be it, bnp or nf, your all the same, most come from other city's as very few protest in there own city as they dont like/want the back lash from it,

so you travel, stir the pot up, and at end of day you think you have done something good,

but again, you have cost the police money and there fore costs us money and cuts when the police force has to manage there books and make cuts.

 

When are you all going to listen, Sheffield is a nice place, we have had our problems, but overall we are a friendly city, go some where else, everest seems like a good place for both groups to go, argue all you like, no police all on ur own, have fun

[boyfriday]

Left to their own devices the EDL will violently run amok in a ethnically diverse neighborhood.

I think you're speculating on an unknown outcome.

 

This has been proven time and time again. Assaults occurred in Sheffield during their recent activities despite heavy police presence. Imagine what they would do if there was none to oppose them?

Let SYP deal with it

The aim of the anti-EDL protesters is not to have a fight. It is to prompt the police into containing the EDL, preventing them from their typical acts of violence.

But you're creating an unnecessary distraction.

On a more general point, the idea that ignoring the extreme right makes it go away is just wishful thinking – recall Europe earlier in the 20th century, where the liberal establishments in many countries took a similar view before they were overthrown. Ignoring the extreme right allows it to normalise its presence and become more acceptable to those whose interests it claims to represent, growing in strength and numbers. Opposing them in large numbers prevents EDL demos from becoming part of the normal fabric of UK politics.

There might be more effective ways to challenge the far right.

Not opposing the extreme right will cause harm in the short and long term. We need to unite as a community and oppose them now. It is they who have created the scenario in which policing money is being wasted; we have no choice but to respond.

 

Totally agree with 'unity' but any protest should have the full mandate of the local community, not be a unilaterally decided bunfight.

[dhs1]

I definitely don't want a fight. If you knew who I was then I think you would think that this was quite a funny suggestion!

 

So tell us who you are.

 

If you truly don't want a fight then you wouldn't want a counter demonstration as of late such demonstrations have provoked violence from one or both sides.

 

Or stay anonymous, enjoy your clash, then claim you were provoked and it was all the other side's fault.

 

But please, not in my name. I protested against the Vietnam war and apartheid in South Africa peacefully.

[geared]

The UAF and EDL are both as bad as each other.

 

Mindless idiots only out for trouble.

[nicecraig]

The other 'mob' represents pretty much everyone else in Britain with a general sense of religious tolerance and openness, so, they probably are quite open to talking.

 

---------- Post added 18-09-2013 at 10:31 ----------

 

 

The counter-protest is against the EDL and its views, so it wouldn't need to happen if the EDL wasn't protesting. I think I can speak for a lot of people who will be counter-protesting in saying that we have better things to do with our Saturday afternoons that we would much rather be doing.

 

If the protest isn't specifically about the Pheasant, then it would cause much more less community tension and be a much better way of spreading information if the EDL were to have peaceful stalls in Fargate.

 

I think I can speak for a lot of people who live in the area

 

BECAUSE I LIVE THERE AND KNOW (The word on the streets)

 

And tell your lot and the EDL

 

ITS NOT GOING TO BE A MOSQUE NEVER EVER WILL BE A MOSQUE NEVER

 

Its the building of these that stirs up trouble by trying to convert/build in areas where they are not required and the fact that they may have even thought of doing so:suspect:

 

Did NOTHING to help community tension the area

 

I question why try and move into such areas which are NOT MUSLuM

Why pinpoint the area in the first place:loopy:

Makes you wonder why:huh:

Plus there are 5 MOSQUES within a 2 mile radius

NOT WANTED OR REQUIRED BY THIS LOCAL COMMUNITY

[Squiggs]

Ignoring the extreme right allows it to normalise its presence and become more acceptable to those whose interests it claims to represent, growing in strength and numbers. Opposing them in large numbers prevents EDL demos from becoming part of the normal fabric of UK politics.

 

I don't think this is a "more general" note at all

 

In fact I think it's the most valid point of all made, ignoring the half-truths on both "sides"* about the plans being dropped. There are still plans for a mosque in the general area, just not in that building, so the EDL's tack is now that they are against those general plans, rather than objecting to a specific building. So it makes no odds really, the Pheasant is an irrelevance other than being a catalyst for the protest.

 

One thing that it DOES show however is that the EDL's agenda is not one of specific issues like parking by a junction or other such "nice, neigbourhood worries" that were raised by the location of the proposed mosque, but that they are TOTALLY opposed to Islam, and not as they try to claim, opposed to only extremist Islam, in the way that decent people might be opposed to the Westboro Baptist Church.

 

 

* I use the term "sides" very loosely, I don't like seeing it as "sides" as that implies that it is just a gang war interrupting others who are not involved. Unfortunately politics means that everyone is in some way involved, be it passively or actively. Just going about your daily life getting some bits from ASDA for Sunday dinner doesn't mean that politics doesn't involve you - the only difference is that you are just swept along having decided not to try to hold a rudder

[harvey19]

This would be an altogether nicer idea, but I don't think that the EDL are very interested in discussion

 

Have they approached or been approached by any MPs or Councillors to discuss matters ?

It seems to me a sensible way to discuss all points of view in an open and responsible way by influential leaders and evaluate them.

Demonstrations and counter demonstrations achieve nothing nowadays except disruption.

[MaxBasher]

@ Boy Friday - thanks for reading the argument and giving a considered reply. I'm unrepentant though.

 

The balance of probability suggests that a violent organization who have repeatedly behaved violently will continue to do so in the future - not a philosophical certainty, but its irresponsible not to act. Leaving things to the SYP is no guarantee of the community's safety when a mobile group of thugs is running amok; counter demos are a necessary means of highlighting the significance of events to the broader local and national communities. Finally, the protest is not a unilaterally decided bun fight - it comes in a context in which local groups have been seeking to raise awareness of the extreme right and have found strong support among communities, which will hopefully be reflected in numbers on the demo.

[dhs1]

It is easy for some to say that we should ‘ignore them and maybe they will go away’ – especially those who are not members of the communities that the EDL victimize. I’d like to make a couple of comments in favour of opposing them on Saturday.

 

Left to their own devices the EDL will violently run amok in a ethnically diverse neighborhood. This has been proven time and time again. Assaults occurred in Sheffield during their recent activities despite heavy police presence. Imagine what they would do if there was none to oppose them? The aim of the anti-EDL protesters is not to have a fight. It is to prompt the police into containing the EDL, preventing them from their typical acts of violence.

 

On a more general point, the idea that ignoring the extreme right makes it go away is just wishful thinking – recall Europe earlier in the 20th century, where the liberal establishments in many countries took a similar view before they were overthrown. Ignoring the extreme right allows it to normalise its presence and become more acceptable to those whose interests it claims to represent, growing in strength and numbers. Opposing them in large numbers prevents EDL demos from becoming part of the normal fabric of UK politics.

 

Not opposing the extreme right will cause harm in the short and long term. We need to unite as a community and oppose them now. It is they who have created the scenario in which policing money is being wasted; we have no choice but to respond.

 

Another first time poster inciting confrontation. You do have a choice but you need a battle. Go and scrap somewhere else and honestly, not under the guise of antifascism.

[Bruno]

What difference would that make? The EDL are protesting about a mosque that was never going to be built in the first place?!

 

The protest is about anymore mosques being built.

 

Well according to what is flying around FB