What does "far right" mean anyway?

[I1L2T3]

There you go making the same mistake. You don't know how high benefits fraud is, so you can't know that People think benefits fraud is much higher than it actually is.

Just because something is undetected doesn't mean it isn't happening.

 

 

From your link

 

 

How can the government estimate how much fraud takes place, and when did you start to trusting what they say. One minute you claim they are lying and the next you agree with them because what they say supports what you think.

 

Look I know you desperately want to prove that there are millions of people pretending to be disabled. I don't know why.

 

All we have to go on are the official figures. I would tend to trust those rather than imagining something into my head and believing that.

 

As for the Atos regime that is not about fraud detection. As I said earlier the WCA is a reassessment of eligibility for ESA based on new rules. If you get moved off ESA it doesn't mean you were a fraudster - it means you no longer qualify based on revised criteria. And the criteria are designed to shift a predetermined quota of people off ESA to meet a predetermined financial and political objective. Many failed WCA assessments are overturned on appeal anyway.

 

Don't confuse the two things, just like you shouldn't bundle the tiny amount of fraudulent disability benefit claimants in with the genuine ones.

[Halibut]

Look I know you desperately want to prove that there are millions of people pretending to be disabled. I don't know why.

 

All we have to go on are the official figures. I would tend to trust those rather than imagining something into my head and believing that.

 

As for the Atos regime that is not about fraud detection. As I said earlier the WCA is a reassessment of eligibility for ESA based on new rules. If you get moved off ESA it doesn't mean you were a fraudster - it means you no longer qualify based on revised criteria. And the criteria are designed to shift a predetermined quota of people off ESA to meet a predetermined financial and political objective. Many failed WCA assessments are overturned on appeal anyway.

 

Don't confuse the two things, just like you shouldn't bundle the tiny amount of fraudulent disability benefit claimants in with the genuine ones.

 

I can guess; I think it's to justify his antipathy towards them.

[TheWriter]

Politics is getting more and more right wing. There's no left wing parties any more. Or the ones there are, are only fringe groups. I predict this trend to follow and eventually fascists to win elections in some European countries within 10 years.

[Happ Hazzard]

They already have, lefties have been going on about "fascist Tories" for ages now.

[angos]

Look I know you desperately want to prove that there are millions of people pretending to be disabled. I don't know why.

You are still missing the point, I don't know how many people defraud the system, you don't know and the government doesn't know, no one knows. All that we do know is that some people do.

 

All we have to go on are the official figures. I would tend to trust those rather than imagining something into my head and believing that.

There are no official figures, someone guessed and based on the amount of times the government gets things right its reasonable to assume they guessed wrong.

 

 

 

As for the Atos regime that is not about fraud detection. As I said earlier the WCA is a reassessment of eligibility for ESA based on new rules. If you get moved off ESA it doesn't mean you were a fraudster - it means you no longer qualify based on revised criteria. And the criteria are designed to shift a predetermined quota of people off ESA to meet a predetermined financial and political objective. Many failed WCA assessments are overturned on appeal anyway.

If you say so, so now you don't trust the government even though you trusted the governments guess.

 

Don't confuse the two things, just like you shouldn't bundle the tiny amount of fraudulent disability benefit claimants in with the genuine ones.

 

The only thing confusing is your ability to trust the government when they say something you agree with, and distrust the them when they say something you disagree with.

[Stan Tamudo]

They already have, lefties have been going on about "fascist Tories" for ages now.

 

You need to chill HH://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nGKqH26xlg Life is to short to worry about things,

[I1L2T3]

You are still missing the point, I don't know how many people defraud the system, you don't know and the government doesn't know, no one knows. All that we do know is that some people do.

 

 

There are no official figures, someone guessed and based on the amount of times the government gets things right its reasonable to assume they guessed wrong.

 

 

 

 

If you say so, so now you don't trust the government even though you trusted the governments guess.

 

 

 

The only thing confusing is your ability to trust the government when they say something you agree with, and distrust the them when they say something you disagree with.

 

Not at all. The fraud detection scheme is an establised regime.

 

The WCA regime is widely regarded to be deeply flawed. It isn't about detecting fraud. People don't get taken to court after failing a WCA assessment, they simply get moved off ESA. And many get moved back onto ESA after winning their appeal. Most judges would laugh a fraud case based on a failed WCA assessment out of court.

 

And anyway isn't it a case of the pot calling the kettle black when you choose to distrust the fraud stats but choose to believe the WCA stats?

 

I don't think your mission to portray disabled people as fraudsters is going very well. It's been entertaining though given the thread you are trying to do it in.

[Halibut]

You are still missing the point, I don't know how many people defraud the system, you don't know and the government doesn't know, no one knows. All that we do know is that some people do.

 

 

There are no official figures, someone guessed and based on the amount of times the government gets things right its reasonable to assume they guessed wrong.

 

 

 

 

If you say so, so now you don't trust the government even though you trusted the governments guess.

 

 

 

The only thing confusing is your ability to trust the government when they say something you agree with, and distrust the them when they say something you disagree with.

 

You're doing a grand job of reinforcing all my stereotypical views about right wingers.

Edited September 21, 2013 by Halibut

[I1L2T3]

Politics is getting more and more right wing. There's no left wing parties any more. Or the ones there are, are only fringe groups. I predict this trend to follow and eventually fascists to win elections in some European countries within 10 years.

 

It's going to depend on economic recovery. People become more conservative and right wing when they are scared of losing what they have. We haven't really seen a really marked shift to the right yet but it will come if this crisis drags on for years.

[angos]

Not at all. The fraud detection scheme is an establised regime.

 

I haven't said it isn't, but they don't detect all fraud and the only fraud they know about is that which is detected.

 

 

The WCA regime is widely regarded to be deeply flawed.

I've already said that.

 

It isn't about detecting fraud.

I haven't said it is.

 

People don't get taken to court after failing a WCA assessment, they simply get moved off ESA. And many get moved back onto ESA after winning their appeal. Most judges would laugh a fraud case based on a failed WCA assessment out of court.

I haven't said anything to the contrary.

 

And anyway isn't it a case of the pot calling the kettle black when you choose to distrust the fraud stats but choose to believe the WCA stats?

I haven't said I believe the WCA stats

 

 

I don't think your mission to portray disabled people as fraudsters is going very well. It's been entertaining though given the thread you are trying to do it in.

It isn't my mission, I think you must being going a little mad to think it is.

 

Or you have lost the ability to read, because you are simply inventing things to further the argument you have already lost.

Edited September 21, 2013 by angos