unbeliever Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 :hihi: yeah right. It's quite true. Just read it. You won't catch anything just by reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 I'm not redefining it, you are. Although you're not alone. Perhaps I've simply conflated authoritarian and right wing, because the right wing (conservative) party in the UK is also authoritarian. I'm still open to changing my opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Perhaps I've simply conflated authoritarian and right wing, because the right wing (conservative) party in the UK is also authoritarian. I'm still open to changing my opinions. Convince me that the UK Conservative party is more authoritarian than the UK Labour party. My own observations are quite the reverse. Some examples of authoritarian Labour policy: ID cards Increased police powers to detain without charge Any-terrorism legislation (once used to kick an elderly man out of their conference for daring to disagree) Laws making being racist or not sufficiently tolerant of religion a crime (not that these are good things) Loss of the right to trial by jury (both courts), and increase in the maximum sentences magistrates can hand out Increased stop and search powers for police Loss of double jeopardy protection There are plenty more. Any counter-examples? Edited July 7, 2015 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassity Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 It's quite true. Just read it. You won't catch anything just by reading. Read Mein Kampf and ignore race and immigration bits, or why read something if you're told to ignore part of what you read, especially when that part is the bedrock of its idealism? Read the Bible but ignore the resurrection.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Read Mein Kampf and ignore race and immigration bits, or why read something if you're told to ignore part of what you read, especially when that part is the bedrock of its idealism? Read the Bible but ignore the resurrection.. The case being made is that the BNP and most other supposedly "far right" organisations are in fact hard-line socialists with bigotry added. If you read the BNP manifesto, you'll see that this is the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassity Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 The case being made is that the BNP and most other supposedly "far right" organisations are in fact hard-line socialists with bigotry added. If you read the BNP manifesto, you'll see that this is the truth. How the hell can it be 'truth' if I'm told to ignore its core value? The only socialist values they have is for the working man, but that's where it stops because their 'working man' is defined by colour...anything darker than White is ****e. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) How the hell can it be 'truth' if I'm told to ignore its core value? The only socialist values they have is for the working man, but that's where it stops because their 'working man' is defined by colour...anything darker than White is ****e. You're conflating socialism with tolerance/liberalism. Socialism is all about being for the working man. i.e. redistribution of wealth. The BNP is what happens when you go full on socialist but demonise the ethnic minorities instead of for example the bankers. Your case is circular. You say that bigots are a right wing problem because you define all bigots to be right wing even if everything about them other than their bigotry is socialist/far left. Honestly, where would you place the Nationalist Socialists and Stalin's Union of Soviet Socialist Republics on the left-right spectrum? Edited July 7, 2015 by unbeliever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Perhaps I've simply conflated authoritarian and right wing, because the right wing (conservative) party in the UK is also authoritarian. I'm still open to changing my opinions. Compared to the Labour party that has gone..? They were one of the most authoratarian Govt/s we've had in a long while. I dont think you can conflate liberal and authoritarian to left and right wing - a political diamond like the Nolan Chart is a far better representation. ---------- Post added 07-07-2015 at 12:41 ---------- , my answer is that far right means fascist. I think that's the common definition. Er no. not at all. Facisim is authoritatian nationalism. The Khmer Rouge were left wing nationalists and facist. Similarly you have the Soviet Union under Stalin, and again they were rampantly left wing. The Nazi's are tricker to describe as they mixed both right and elft wing aspects into their ideas. Don't conflate the authoritarian aspects of them with being right wing. Facist governments are often right wing - but not always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unbeliever Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 Compared to the Labour party that has gone..? They were one of the most authoratarian Govt/s we've had in a long while. I dont think you can conflate liberal and authoritarian to left and right wing - a political diamond like the Nolan Chart is a far better representation. The Nolan Chart is certainly an improvement on the standard right-left terminology, but it's very clear to me that socialism is far more susceptible to authoritarianism as both ideologies are in practise associated with and dependent on big government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Fascism is a construct of the left. National SOCIALISM. Facisim is a construct of the Romans a good couple of milennia before that uppity little corporal got involved. They just didn't call it facism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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