What does "far right" mean anyway?

[Vaati]

I found your thread Unbeliever, it had not been deleted. Have merged your old and new threads.

[unbeliever]

Is that why you started a thread, using just such a term?

 

An uncharitable person might infer that you are simply looking for an argument.

 

I seek to attack the term. How am I to do this without mentioning it?

And yes I'm looking for an argument. This is a debate forum.

[flamingjimmy]

When most people use the term 'far right' they are not talking about economics.

 

Socialism and free market capitalism often barely come into it, it's the authoritarian vs liberalism thing that most people a referring too when they say 'far right' imo.

 

Certainly is for me, economics is so confusing I don't even know where I stand, but I'm a social liberal and that makes me a lefty in a sense. I believe in freedom and equality for individuals (which the left kind of have patented over the last century which I imagine is what annoys you) and I'm far more passionate about that than I ever will be about economics.

 

The forces of the right (in this country the 'conservatives') have completely lost the battle over the last century or so on those grounds and the whole society has become much more liberal, thanks almost entirely to the 'left' and pushed back against by the 'right' at almost every turn.

 

It's for this reason that people call the authoritarian leaders such as Hitler far right. Lefty liberals don't burn books and don't persecute minorities, that's what the authoritarian and conservative right do.

 

Also I'd like to quote Christopher Hitchens here on fascism, as this quote has always stuck with me and is very relevant:

 

"...to start with the original 20th century totalitarian ideology, which originally called itself fascism: If in any historical account you read of fascism, from it's origins in Italy through Spain, Portugal, Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia etc. if you take out the word 'fascist' and put 'catholic right wing' its the same story, there's no difference. And if you add 'parties in political alliance with the vatican' it's the same. Fascism is another word for the Christian catholic right wing.

In Slovakia the actual head of the fascist dictatorship was a priest Father Tiso. In almost every case the regime was in holy orders and/or with a direct alliance with the pope himself."

 

If you ask someone 'why was Hitler so bad?' They are not going to answer 'because of the way he ran the economy', no they will say 'because of the holocaust' which has very deep roots in conservative christian antisemitism, going right back to Martin Luther and beyond.

Edited October 31, 2016 by flamingjimmy

[unbeliever]

When most people use the term 'far right' they are not talking about economics.

 

Socialism and free market capitalism often barely come into it, it's the authoritarian vs liberalism thing that most people a referring too when they say 'far right' imo.

 

Certainly is for me, economics is so confusing I don't even know where I stand, but I'm a social liberal and that makes me a lefty in a sense. I believe in freedom and equality for individuals (which the left kind of have patented over the last century which I imagine is what annoys you) and I'm far more passionate about that than I ever will be about economics.

 

The forces of the right (in this country the 'conservatives') have completely lost the battle over the last century or so on those grounds and the whole society has become much more liberal, thanks almost entirely to the 'left' and pushed back against by the 'right' at almost every turn.

 

It's for this reason that people call the authoritarian leaders such as Hitler far right. Lefty liberals don't burn books and don't persecute minorities, that's what the authoritarian and conservative right do.

 

Also I'd like to quote Christopher Hitchens here on fascism, as this quote has always stuck with me and is very relevant:

 

"...to start with the original 20th century totalitarian ideology, which originally called itself fascism: If in any historical account you read of fascism, from it's origins in Italy through Spain, Portugal, Croatia, Hungary, Slovakia etc. if you take out the word 'fascist' and put 'catholic right wing' its the same story, there's no difference. And if you add 'parties in political alliance with the vatican' it's the same. Fascism is another word for the Christian catholic right wing.

In Slovakia the actual head of the fascist dictatorship was a priest Father Tiso. In almost every case the regime was in holy orders and/or with a direct alliance with the pope himself."

 

If you ask someone 'why was Hitler so bad?' They are not going to answer 'because of the way he ran the economy', no they will say 'because of the holocaust' which has very deep roots in conservative christian antisemitism, going right back to Martin Luther and beyond.

 

I was a great admirer of Hitchens myself.

I actually loathe social conservatives but I merely disagree with socialists.

The problem is one of terminology. There is no real link as far as I can see between social conservatives and libertarians nor between social liberals and socialists, or authoritarians and socialists. Except that some of these various groups are sometimes allied against others. The left are right terms are extraordinarily unhelpful at best.

Authoritarianism can emerge from social conservatism or from socialism or some combination. It can't really emerge from libertarianism and it has a job reconciling with social liberalism.

Just because you're a socialist does not make you safe from becoming authoritarian or bigoted, if anything it puts you at the greatest risk as you're trying to change the world by exercising power over the people in it.

Edited November 1, 2016 by unbeliever