3 British people murdered in Kenya

[natjack]

This is an interesting take on what Islamophobia means.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Islamophobia.htm

I'd agree with most of that. I'm not quite sure why it's seen as a phobia. It seems quite rational not to want to have too much Islam in our western countries.

 

You can talk about 'moderate' muslims all you like, when push comes to shove, they're not going to side with us, are they? Be honest.

[TheWriter]

I'd agree with most of that. I'm not quite sure why it's seen as a phobia. It seems quite rational not to want to have too much Islam in our western countries.

 

You can talk about 'moderate' muslims all you like, when push comes to shove, they're not going to side with us, are they? Be honest.

 

I was thinking about this point the other day. I appreciate how Muslims stick together to help each other. We could learn from this in the West.

 

So if there was a major war, say the balance of power changed and a Muslim nation became a dominant force and was marching this way. Would the Muslims who live here fight for England?

 

Say if I lived in Pakistan and they were the dominant nation, but things changed and England was on the march, at the borders of Pakistan, who would I fight for?

 

If I'm honest, I don't know. If I had a Pakistani family, then I'd probably fight for them, but if not and I hadn't been there long, probably England.

 

I'd be interested to hear what Muslims think about this. There's no shame in wanting to defend your own, bloods thicker than water.

[skinz]

I was thinking about this point the other day. I appreciate how Muslims stick together to help each other. We could learn from this in the West.

 

So if there was a major war, say the balance of power changed and a Muslim nation became a dominant force and was marching this way. Would the Muslims who live here fight for England?

 

Say if I lived in Pakistan and they were the dominant nation, but things changed and England was on the march, at the borders of Pakistan, who would I fight for?

 

If I'm honest, I don't know. If I had a Pakistani family, then I'd probably fight for them, but if not and I hadn't been there long, probably England.

 

I'd be interested to hear what Muslims think about this. There's no shame in wanting to defend your own, bloods thicker than water.

 

Rather than bloods thicker than water I think my decision would be based on right or wrong as I see it, not location or ties. Risk would also be a factor.

I don't always agree or disagree with my family simply because they're family.

[natjack]

I was thinking about this point the other day. I appreciate how Muslims stick together to help each other. We could learn from this in the West.

 

I'd be interested to hear what Muslims think about this. There's no shame in wanting to defend your own, bloods thicker than water.

They used to say that about the Jews sticking together to help one another. As all three versions are the same religion basically at different points in time, I wonder when the Christian sect stopped sticking together to help one another? When it became the dominant imported religion in the West,and was then re-exported back around the world, would you say? People only stick together and help one another when they're poor, powerless and have no influence.

 

In regard to the emboldened bit, this is the dilemma, isn't it? Islam is just a religion, not a country or a nationality. Before Islam arrived at such influence in the West, we'd never have had to ask that question. What is 'their own', is it this nation, or the 'nation' of Islam? Generally speaking, for them, no matter where they live, their loyalty is only to Islam, not their country or their fellow citizens.

[Chris_Sleeps]

I appreciate how Muslims stick together to help each other. We could learn from this in the West.

their loyalty is only to Islam, not their country or their fellow citizens.

Out of all the stupid generalisations ever coughed up on here, these two are quite high on the list.

[natjack]

Out of all the stupid generalisations ever coughed up on here, these two are quite high on the list.

I only have what they say to go on ... do you actually ever talk to any Muslims? Especially the youth. You might be surprised to find what they really think.

[avidcameron]

I regard fish as less than human.

 

I think you are losing the argument,and should not revert to petulance to extricate yourself.

[skinz]

They used to say that about the Jews sticking together to help one another. As all three versions are the same religion basically at different points in time, I wonder when the Christian sect stopped sticking together to help one another? When it became the dominant imported religion in the West,and was then re-exported back around the world, would you say? People only stick together and help one another when they're poor, powerless and have no influence.

 

In regard to the emboldened bit, this is the dilemma, isn't it? Islam is just a religion, not a country or a nationality. Before Islam arrived at such influence in the West, we'd never have had to ask that question. What is 'their own', is it this nation, or the 'nation' of Islam? Generally speaking, for them, no matter where they live, their loyalty is only to Islam, not their country or their fellow citizens.

 

If religion was the factor in taking sides one way or the other, then I'd stand back, let them get on with it and step in later. I'm prepared to live within a secular or even non secular country, I'm certainly not prepared to die for religion.

[Chris_Sleeps]

do you actually ever talk to any Muslims? Especially the youth.

Yeah. I do. I've worked with some, and was friendly with a young woman. Her partner was an awful mistrusting mysogynist, but I wouldn't generalise all Muslim men because of one person.

 

I even discussed my atheism and my love of pulled pork, and she didn't want to behead me.

[skinz]

 

I even discussed my atheism and my love of pulled pork, and she didn't want to behead me.

 

You're a very lucky man.