Cameron, No dole for under 25's

[Anna B]

No Anna people had pride before all this new welfare, the old welfare was a safety net and so it should be just that! now its a lifestyle choice for a lot.

post ww2 50s 60s 70s we could learn a lot ......and then the gates were opened to every tom dick or harry from across the world.

 

Well I admit I was thinking more of Victorian times, rather than the seventies.

 

I believe old age pensions came in in the early 1920s and there was some kind of national assistance also, but the welfare state as we know it, along with the NHS and free higher education etc, was the work of the first post war (WW2) Labour government.

 

The rot set in in the 1980s when the big industries closed, causing mass unemployment, and an awful lot of bitterness. In spite of some new jobs (often in service industries,) some areas have never really recovered and this is where multi-generational welfare dependency started creating an underclass.

 

Hundreds of thousands of new jobs were required but the only job creation the government has any direct control over is in the public sector, which is why the public sector jobs boomed, particuarly in the old industrial areas where they were used to mop up some of the unemployment. ('5-a-day' managers, for heavens sake!) However once again these are the jobs that have been cut in the recession so the north gets a hiding once again.

 

There really aren't enough jobs to go round. Current calculations put it at 6 people for every job. The only thing that is going to turn things around is more jobs; enough for everyone, and hopefully paid at a level that will be enough to support a family without help from the state.

[southcoast]

Good to see the welfare state being tackled for once,its still not gone far enough for me,we need to stop housing foreign scroungers and giving them our money as well.

And lets stop the foreign aid budget,its money down the drain when our country is struggling,I hope that single mothers will also be targetted.time for them to realise they must take responsibilty for their actions and not expect the rest of us to pick up the tab.

[the_bloke]

To understand where he is coming from, look at the plan that Labour have said they will put in place:

 

Labour: we'll borrow money and create non jobs out of thin air, and force those out of work for more than 12 months to take these jobs or they don't get benefits.

 

Tories: we'll force those out of work to find jobs or enter education, or they don't get benefits.

 

Labour's plan will cost millions, if not hundreds of millions. People will be employed at a direct cost to the taxpayer, doing mundane donkey work - expect big lumps of cash being given to councils and companies on council contracts to employ extra street cleaners, dinner ladies, bin men and other public sector unskilled jobs. In the meantime, the private sector will have to pay more in tax to fund this spending spree. When the money runs out, all these people will be back on the dole.

 

Tories plan will cost millions in providing more further education places, as well as providing tax breaks and bonus schemes for businesses to encourage employing the under 25s who have left school branded 'unemployable' by most businesses thanks to a broken education system.

 

Both schemes cost money - Labour's more money - and both will have a chance for people to actually learn a skill, gain a better education or get a foot in the door in the workplace.

 

How you feel about it depends if you agree with the idea of the state providing jobs that don't currently exist funded by borrowing and tax rises, like Labour's old promises of job creation back in 2005/2006 which could be argued helped no one apart from economic migrants.

[Happ Hazzard]

The Tories plan will last beyond their administration as well, whereas Labours plan relies upon them being in power. This is a common theme with Labour.

[MickM]

If the government don't bring in more apprenticeships to cope with this, then I can see the ones who can't get employment and end up in a continuous cycle of training going into a depression. It's completely nuts

 

...or a cycle of crime.

 

Why starve on the streets when you can get comparitively lavish treatment in prison? I suspect it costs a lot more than £50 a week to hold someone in prison, or don't the government care as long as the unemployment figures don't go up?

[Anna B]

To understand where he is coming from, look at the plan that Labour have said they will put in place:

 

Labour: we'll borrow money and create non jobs out of thin air, and force those out of work for more than 12 months to take these jobs or they don't get benefits.

 

Tories: we'll force those out of work to find jobs or enter education, or they don't get benefits.

 

Labour's plan will cost millions, if not hundreds of millions. People will be employed at a direct cost to the taxpayer, doing mundane donkey work - expect big lumps of cash being given to councils and companies on council contracts to employ extra street cleaners, dinner ladies, bin men and other public sector unskilled jobs. In the meantime, the private sector will have to pay more in tax to fund this spending spree. When the money runs out, all these people will be back on the dole.

 

Tories plan will cost millions in providing more further education places, as well as providing tax breaks and bonus schemes for businesses to encourage employing the under 25s who have left school branded 'unemployable' by most businesses thanks to a broken education system.

 

Both schemes cost money - Labour's more money - and both will have a chance for people to actually learn a skill, gain a better education or get a foot in the door in the workplace.

 

How you feel about it depends if you agree with the idea of the state providing jobs that don't currently exist funded by borrowing and tax rises, like Labour's old promises of job creation back in 2005/2006 which could be argued helped no one apart from economic migrants.

 

Earning or Learning:

 

No one could argue with that.

 

But how much has been put in place to facilitate it? Kids have to stay in education until they're 18 from next year, but can someone tell me, do they have to stay in school (in which case where are they going to go? Where are the extra classrooms? Extra teachers?) or does it mean college?

Similarly; courses, apprenticeships and training. Are they going to be of worthwhile quality, or are we talking A4e all over again?

After all this training are there going to be any jobs? Youth unemployment in some other countries is running at 50%

[Happ Hazzard]

If the government don't bring in more apprenticeships to cope with this, then I can see the ones who can't get employment and end up in a continuous cycle of training going into a depression. It's completely nuts

How is continuous training any more likely to cause depression than continuously being on benefits?

[angos]

The Tories have no policies apart from freezing fuel tax, and punishing the unemployed. Just a rouse and distraction of failed policies from Eton Spives feathering their own nests for themselves and their friends.

 

If you consider training and working to be punishment, do you think criminals should be punished in this manner instead being sent to prison.

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2013 at 07:23 ----------

 

...or a cycle of crime.

 

Why starve on the streets when you can get comparitively lavish treatment in prison? I suspect it costs a lot more than £50 a week to hold someone in prison, or don't the government care as long as the unemployment figures don't go up?

 

Thats another cost that needs reducing, it shouldn't cost a lot to lock someone up and provide them with the very basics of life.

[Cyclone]

No Anna people had pride before all this new welfare, the old welfare was a safety net and so it should be just that! now its a lifestyle choice for a lot.

post ww2 50s 60s 70s we could learn a lot ......and then the gates were opened to every tom dick or harry from across the world.

 

Just how many long term unemployed are there... "A lot" you say, we must be talking about millions then, for this to be a serious problem that requires government time and money to address it?

[Mecky]

Earning or Learning:

 

No one could argue with that.

 

But how much has been put in place to facilitate it? Kids have to stay in education until they're 18 from next year, but can someone tell me, do they have to stay in school (in which case where are they going to go? Where are the extra classrooms? Extra teachers?) or does it mean college?

Similarly; courses, apprenticeships and training. Are they going to be of worthwhile quality, or are we talking A4e all over again?

After all this training are there going to be any jobs? Youth unemployment in some other countries is running at 50%

 

Learn what?

 

So they learn and then what? Instead of being unemployed under 25 they become unemployed over 25. The goalposts have changed