Cameron, No dole for under 25's

[Mecky]

So you'd agree then that if someone refused a job then their benefit should be stopped? That's what Ed Balls said...work or lose your benefits.. Where will the jobs come from Mecky..and how much will they pay?

 

Where did I say that?

 

If Ed Balls said it, why ask me? I didn't create the plan. Why don't you ask Balls? On the face of it his plan is better IMO. I'm sure you have a different opinion but you would. That's just you and no doubt, your like

[truman]

Where did I say that?

 

If Ed Balls said it, why ask me? I didn't create the plan. Why don't you ask Balls? On the face of it his plan is better IMO. I'm sure you have a different opinion but you would. That's just you and no doubt, your like

 

What do you mean "my like" ?-.. both the plans say either work or lose benefits...is Balls wrong to say that?

[L00b]

Do I know. No. But benefitting from my education, I am able to make a prediction. <...>

I'm suggesting that simply mandating more of the same will not solve the problems with reading and writing for someone who has reached the age of 18 in that state.

You're the one who posited that "more of the same" would be used, with your question, Cyclone. I have not made any such claim.

 

Quite on the contrary, with my reply to you I suggested that education specialists would be best-placed to determine whether, indeed, "simply more of the same" would be used or "something different".

 

Benefitting from my education, I am likewise able to make a prediction: it would be "something different". Logical, since the 'standard' education system has failed them by age 18. But that's conjecture, all the same.

BTW - do you think the person who is pushing this change through parliament is an education specialist? Is the secretary for education even an education specialist?

No, their job is to set and vote a policy according to desired objectives. How to implement the policy is up to the specialists. As usual, and as with most other areas of Gvt policy.

And this is tinkering at the edges. It will not fix it.

Why is stating that the educational system looks like it's failing amounts to 'tinkering at the edges'?

 

It's a simple statement, not even a hint of a solution.

HNC/D are financed in the same way as a degree (or so it appears after a quick google), so this is a larger issue than the one in question here.

It may well be, but all the same it is intrinsically linked to the issue in question: if a proportion of under-25s are going to "keep learning", there must be subject-matter for them to learn.

[Mecky]

What do you mean "my like" ?-.. both the plans say either work or lose benefits...is Balls wrong to say that?

 

What do you mean like your like?

 

Yes he is wrong IMO as I said, but the plan is still better than the tory option.

[truman]

What do you mean like your like?

 

Yes he is wrong IMO as I said, but the plan is still better than the tory option.

 

 

 

If Ed Balls said it, why ask me? I didn't create the plan. Why don't you ask Balls? On the face of it his plan is better IMO. I'm sure you have a different opinion but you would. That's just you and no doubt, your like

 

You used the expression first.. I asked you what you meant by it... In what way is the Labour plan better? Genuine question..

[angos]

You used the expression first.. I asked you what you meant by it... In what way is the Labour plan better? Genuine question..

 

Its better in Mecky's eyes because everything Labour do it better than what Tories do.

[Anna B]

For a great many no doubt, to read and write properly, and to cope with basic maths, for a start.

 

I'd love to see stats correlating educational level with entire classes of age in the UK. The acid test in France used to be at the induction into the National Service, at which time these skills were assessed (basically, all lads of a class of age, minus the odd few dispensed/conscience objectors). Every year without fail, the proportion of people lacking such basic skills (reading/writing/algebra) was an eye opener. I'm talking 20% plus. In any class of age, there is always going to be a proportion of really thick/non-functional people. Sorry if it sounds mean, but that's just life.

 

Next, for as many as possible, one or more foreign languages to at least A-Level standard for improving their employability not only here but overseas.

 

And, for many still, practical and trade skills directly relevant to employers. The sort of courses which output turnkey (moderately specialised) employees ready to get on with things from the get-go.

 

If you consider European economic migrants coming to the UK, how is it so many come here and find employment (I'm not talking about stacking shelves or flipping burgers here) without much difficulty? Because they come out of educational systems per the above.

 

I should know, I was one.

 

There really are some incredibly patronising attitudes on here.

 

I assure you a great many of the unemployed in this age group are perfectly well educated, some are graduates. The problem is a lack of jobs to go to. (average 5 or 6 applicants for every job, probably worse in the north of England)

 

Courses and apprenticeships are already oversubscribed as it is, and still no jobs at the end of them.

 

What language would you advise these people to learn, (who, according to you, can barely cope with English.) German? French? Gujurati? The big advantage other countries have is that they have their own language, then learn English as an international language which allows them to work in many countries.

 

---------- Post added 03-10-2013 at 12:40 ----------

 

Learn what?

 

So they learn and then what? Instead of being unemployed under 25 they become unemployed over 25. The goalposts have changed

 

I agree. But on paper, it will make the unemployment figures fall, so it will be hailed as a great success. Mission accomplished.

[Mecky]

You used the expression first.. I asked you what you meant by it... In what way is the Labour plan better? Genuine question..

 

Why are you trying to troll this out when I've already I've alreay told you why?

 

So you disagree, ok then why do you think the tory plan is better?

[L00b]

There really are some incredibly patronising attitudes on here.

 

I assure you a great many of the unemployed in this age group are perfectly well educated, some are graduates.

Where did I write "all unemployed are illiterates" in my post? Wind your neck in, why don't you.

What language would you advise these people to learn, (who, according to you, can barely cope with English.) (again, wind your neck in) German? French? Gujurati? The big advantage other countries have is that they have their own language, then learn English as an international language which allows them to work in many countries.

Ah, so according to you, it would be wrong for Brits to seek to have the same advantage, reciprocally. I see.

 

As for what languages, sure, here you go: Chinese (Mandarin), Portuguese, Spanish and French (listed in order of global useability, with a small dose of foresight). Russian, if you want to hedge your bets. German, not quite as useful as these...but if you can slot it in, by all means do.

[truman]

Where did I say that?

 

If Ed Balls said it, why ask me? I didn't create the plan. Why don't you ask Balls? On the face of it his plan is better IMO. I'm sure you have a different opinion but you would. That's just you and no doubt, your like

 

Why are you trying to troll this out when I've already I've alreay told you why?

 

So you disagree, ok then why do you think the tory plan is better?

 

Did I say it was? Where are Ed Balls' jobs coming from?