Cameron, No dole for under 25's

[tinfoilhat]

It would be more sensible to educate these people while they are at school rather than wait until their failings have been set in stone.It seems invidious to charge students £9000 pa to be educated and yet allow poor achievers to have free provision.The policy was made on the back of a condom packet.

 

I don't really buy this. I didn't have a clue what I wanted to at 16 or even 18 and spurned a lot of the oppotunities that came my as a result those oppotunities weren't as plentiful the older I got. I can't be the only one or even in a tiny minority. Pigeon holing people as failed at 18, which is really what were doing now isn't helpful, educating them must be.

 

Let me draw on an American viewpoint on how a lot of people end up :hihi:

 

FirstFirst of all, thank you for giving me the opportunity to come talk to you on Career Day. Now, I am not Mr. Carl Peterson and I don't have a career per se. I guess you could say my career is living and loving. And I do that to the utmost... I see all you fresh-faced kidlets sitting there in your neat little rows, and you're all just pods. Pods, waiting for your instructions. Now some of you are going to get zapped right away and be 15-year-old prodigies, little midget Olympic gymnasts with their pictures on cereal boxes. Some of you will go on to college, and you'll find your rhythm there and then go chase down the titans of industry, or maybe straighten out our problems at the UN. But some of you, and this is the group that no one ever comes into Career Day and addresses, and it's criminal! Some of you are just going to float along, eating spicy foods, humming black people's music into your 30s, well into your 30s, languishing. This group of pods is going to do a lot of languishing. And you're going to take some heat for it. Sadly, you will. Europe's a little easier. They seem to understand a little better. So does South America. I went to Argentina one time and everyone just seemed to be sitting around. It was beautiful. But that's okay. Stay loose. Stay liquid. Laugh a lot. But be ready. That's what Dupree's doing with his life's little pod. Staying nimble till I get the call from the mother ship. My raison d'état. Then I'd fight. Then you'll see Dupree coming in here throwing seven different kinds of smoke!

 

 

Will there be jobs for everyone? Doubt it, but at least educating someone is a damn sight better than letting them sign on forever and rotting away in the queue at the job centre. Or, as I said let's just stick with eds plan and stick people under 25 in jobs in tesco or macdonalds (who won't mind the cheap labour) regardless of what they can do or study.

[monkey69]

I don't really buy this. I didn't have a clue what I wanted to at 16 or even 18 and spurned a lot of the oppotunities that came my as a result those oppotunities weren't as plentiful the older I got. I can't be the only one or even in a tiny minority. Pigeon holing people as failed at 18, which is really what were doing now isn't helpful, educating them must be.

 

Let me draw on an American viewpoint on how a lot of people end up :hihi:

 

FirstFirst of all, thank you for giving me the opportunity to come talk to you on Career Day. Now, I am not Mr. Carl Peterson and I don't have a career per se. I guess you could say my career is living and loving. And I do that to the utmost... I see all you fresh-faced kidlets sitting there in your neat little rows, and you're all just pods. Pods, waiting for your instructions. Now some of you are going to get zapped right away and be 15-year-old prodigies, little midget Olympic gymnasts with their pictures on cereal boxes. Some of you will go on to college, and you'll find your rhythm there and then go chase down the titans of industry, or maybe straighten out our problems at the UN. But some of you, and this is the group that no one ever comes into Career Day and addresses, and it's criminal! Some of you are just going to float along, eating spicy foods, humming black people's music into your 30s, well into your 30s, languishing. This group of pods is going to do a lot of languishing. And you're going to take some heat for it. Sadly, you will. Europe's a little easier. They seem to understand a little better. So does South America. I went to Argentina one time and everyone just seemed to be sitting around. It was beautiful. But that's okay. Stay loose. Stay liquid. Laugh a lot. But be ready. That's what Dupree's doing with his life's little pod. Staying nimble till I get the call from the mother ship. My raison d'état. Then I'd fight. Then you'll see Dupree coming in here throwing seven different kinds of smoke!

 

 

Will there be jobs for everyone? Doubt it, but at least educating someone is a damn sight better than letting them sign on forever and rotting away in the queue at the job centre. Or, as I said let's just stick with eds plan and stick people under 25 in jobs in tesco or macdonalds (who won't mind the cheap labour) regardless of what they can do or study.

 

 

and of course it will put them into debt for nearly all of their lives!, that sort of debt stays with you even if you go bankrupt.

and of course its the private sector that bankrolls the funds so its them that reaps the long term benefit of having a income stream for years into the future.

and that added attraction of making the present generations scared stiff of taking action against the state(or fat cats). its a win win for the 1% that lord it over us mere mortals...

[tinfoilhat]

and of course it will put them into debt for nearly all of their lives!, that sort of debt stays with you even if you go bankrupt.

and of course its the private sector that bankrolls the funds so its them that reaps the long term benefit of having a income stream for years into the future.

and that added attraction of making the present generations scared stiff of taking action against the state(or fat cats). its a win win for the 1% that lord it over us mere mortals...

 

Are charging for vocational courses? A levels? I didn't read that bit.

[El Cid]

It would be more sensible to educate these people while they are at school.

 

Is no one understanding that some children have very poor parents that would be glad to see the back of their kids?

With supportive parents, most of those children would prefer to stay at home and let their parents spoil them.

I can understand the rhetoric, but is this a sledge hammer to crack a nut?

[iansheff]

And when they put these people in education, miraculously the unemployment figures will go down.

[Mecky]

And when they put these people in education, miraculously the unemployment figures will go down.

 

That's what I said in post 133. However, the number of unemployed may not change that much when thousands of redundant road sweepers hit the dole queue. Still, the level of unemployed under 25s will go down but the higher age brackets will just grow ... so everything will be ok

[Cyclone]

He seemed fit to challenge my opinion by not agree with it. Therefore he is of a different opinion and since the options on the table are from the Conservatives and Labour, and I said the Labour initiative would be better, but not it's without its problems IMO, he obviously thinks the Conservative option is better. He won't say why he thinks that and has no intention to. He is just trying to grind a troll, which ably demonstrates what type of person he really is.

 

That's a false dichotomy, not agreeing with one policy does not at all imply agreement with the other.

The world is not as black and white as you seem to think.

[Mecky]

That's a false dichotomy, not agreeing with one policy does not at all imply agreement with the other.

The world is not as black and white as you seem to think.

 

Time will tell

[Cyclone]

Hang on a minute here.

 

All we know of 'the plan' for now, is that it advocates more education in the absence of a professional activity.

 

Not whether it's the same or a different form of education. That is your artificial contention (that it will be the same).

It's not a contention at all.

Education == Education

 

That is by any definition more of the same.

 

You're trying to suggest that it might be some previously untried new form of education, which sounds like nonsense. State education failed these people by the age 18, yet now the magic, improved education will be applied because they don't have a job!

So far as I'm concerned, it will likely be both, but I don't know that for sure and I will not second-guess specialists.

I'm amused that you think any specialists are involved.

But to get back to your post: nothing (tangible/in detail)has been proposed, is the point.

So we can only discuss the proposal as it stands then.

 

And, lest we forget, our semi-private exhange here only related to illiterates failed by the standard educational system (up to 18 ); not all unemployed in the 18-25 range concerned by 'the plan' (many of whom, I expect, are actually post-degree in this day and age already...and yes, more education is possible for them too).

True, I was going along with your assertion that these people were over represented amongst the unemployed.

I'm looking at your post #139 and that's exactly what you said

 

Anyway, I did not "suggest" that vocational training was something new (hence the mention of long-existing HNCs/HNDs), I posted that they were expensive, and that accessibility to them should be improved, as one of the possible ways of providing "more education".

Ah yes, and I pointed out that they are accessed via student loans, effectively free at the point of provision.

 

In the meantime, please stop inferring secondary meaning and suggestions in my posts, as per your habit. We've already had words about that not so long ago.

I don't know how you read things, but I find it impossible to not 'interpret' when I read. The act of reading is an interpretation of the words that are written.

If you think I infer something incorrectly, simply correct my inference.

Or be more clear in the first place.

[angos]

State education failed these people by the age 18, yet now the magic, improved education will be applied because they don't have a job!

 

It couldn't be anything to do with them lacking the motivation to learn whilst they were young could it? and then perhaps like many adults regretting their lack of effort and deciding to go on to further education to make up for it.

 

Some kids just want to fool around, play, lark about whilst they are kids, should that then stop them from further education when they become a little more mature. I know a few people that left school with zero qualifications, regretted their lack and effort and started to study in their late teens early twenties, ultimately going on to uni and gaining a degree. It wasn't the education they received that change, it was they that changed.