tinfoilhat Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 We're not really talking about a better educated workforce tho' are we? That's just smoke and mirrors for stopping the dole and 'cutting' unemployment figures. The courses will be done on the cheap, and rubbish. How many people do A4e get into employment with their 'courses'? I think the figure is about 4 out of 100, and that is surprisingly high if you've actually seen the 'quality' of these so called back to work schemes. Basically they provide Emma Harrison with a multi-million pound income and that's about it. This will be more of the same. As for starting your own business, sorry to say it, but most fail, (according to statistics almost 80% fail in the first year.) And again, in spite of the propoganda, there is precious little help from the government, and many people end up in debt and worse off than when they started. Government is on a hiding to nothing then - you've at least got to let them flesh out their plans. As for business failures (not a good word IMHO) it's inevitable but it the states it's part of a learning curve - not so in this country. You've managed to properly depress me - educating people is no good, striking out on your own is no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Government is on a hiding to nothing then - you've at least got to let them flesh out their plans. As for business failures (not a good word IMHO) it's inevitable but it the states it's part of a learning curve - not so in this country. You've managed to properly depress me - educating people is no good, striking out on your own is no good. I'm really sorry tinfoilhat, I honestly don't like depressing people, but we are living in particularly depressing times. I don't know what teachers tell their kids these days, - it used to be 'work hard, pass your exams, and you'll get a good job' but that just doesn't hold true any more. Without proper jobs full employment is a thing of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southcoast Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 I'm really sorry tinfoilhat, I honestly don't like depressing people, but we are living in particularly depressing times. I don't know what teachers tell their kids these days, - it used to be 'work hard, pass your exams, and you'll get a good job' but that just doesn't hold true any more. Without proper jobs full employment is a thing of the past. We havent had full employment for generations,and we wont ever again,I am in my 50s and I can never remember when we had full employment even back in the 70s and 80s,its not going to change while we have mass immigraion and people coming here to work,and of course our own people who have had it too easy on welfare to be botherd to look for work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 We havent had full employment for generations,and we wont ever again,I am in my 50s and I can never remember when we had full employment even back in the 70s and 80s,its not going to change while we have mass immigraion and people coming here to work,and of course our own people who have had it too easy on welfare to be botherd to look for work. Multi-generational unemployment really took off in the 1980's following the closure of the heavy industries, particularly in the north, so yes, we haven't had full employment for a while. These are the people who have morphed into an underclass of so called 'benefit scroungers.' Thousands of those lost jobs have never been properly replaced. Many of the new jobs that were created were mostly in the poorly paid service industries, or in the public sector which is the only sector where the government can directly create jobs, and these have been culled. Manufacturing jobs went abroad and all the emphasis was put on the money markets in the city to generate enough money to cover up the cracks. When they crashed, so did we. So we are now back in a similar position and it's going to get a lot worse. With the downturn in the economy it's too easy to put the blame on the 'feckless' unemployed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*_ash_* Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 I'm really sorry tinfoilhat, I honestly don't like depressing people, but we are living in particularly depressing times. I <snipped> No we aren't! You should travel to some places and you will see how rich we are. Manufacturing jobs went abroad Who's fault was it?? So we are now back in a similar position and it's going to get a lot worse. With the downturn in the economy it's too easy to put the blame on the 'feckless' unemployed. With your attitude and those of your peers, it won't get better. You're an A-Class doom-monger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 No we aren't! You should travel to some places and you will see how rich we are. Who's fault was it?? With your attitude and those of your peers, it won't get better. You're an A-Class doom-monger. Until the real problem is acknowledged, as opposed to the PR version, nothing will be done. I want to see the problems sorted out more than most, but they are hugely complex. This simplistic attack on the unemployed will achieve nothing and cost us even more money. It doesn't help that at a time when we need particularly strong leadership, nobody trusts politicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*_ash_* Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Until the real problem is acknowledged, as opposed to the PR version, nothing will be done. The real problem is what you can't see. It's almost ironic that you wrote that. I want to see the problems sorted out more than most, but they are hugely complex. This simplistic attack on the unemployed will achieve nothing and cost us even more money. How is it a simplistic attack on the unemployed? To repeat my earlier comment, if someone isn't physically or mentally disabled, then there is NO reason to be out of work for 2 years! (other than the obvious - they get too much money for free). It doesn't help that at a time when we need particularly strong leadership, nobody trusts politicians. Cameron is a strongish leader. He's trying to tidy up what some people don't want to hear. People like you. The only reason he isn't stronger is that what needs to be done will leave him prey to the left, and lose an election. The current 'left' (Labour) have nothing else to offer other than more of the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 The real problem is what you can't see. It's almost ironic that you wrote that. How is it a simplistic attack on the unemployed? To repeat my earlier comment, if someone isn't physically or mentally disabled, then there is NO reason to be out of work for 2 years! (other than the obvious - they get too much money for free). Cameron is a strongish leader. He's trying to tidy up what some people don't want to hear. People like you. The only reason he isn't stronger is that what needs to be done will leave him prey to the left, and lose an election. The current 'left' (Labour) have nothing else to offer other than more of the same. Everything in your post smacks of desperation all round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 The real problem is what you can't see. It's almost ironic that you wrote that. How is it a simplistic attack on the unemployed? To repeat my earlier comment, if someone isn't physically or mentally disabled, then there is NO reason to be out of work for 2 years! (other than the obvious - they get too much money for free). Cameron is a strongish leader. He's trying to tidy up what some people don't want to hear. People like you. The only reason he isn't stronger is that what needs to be done will leave him prey to the left, and lose an election. The current 'left' (Labour) have nothing else to offer other than more of the same. The thing I find very odd in all these changes to the benefits system, is the relatively small cost to the country of benefits. It's not going to save us all that much money when JSA makes up about 1% of government expenditure. Imagine JSA was completely abolished, the saving wouldn't even put a noticeable dent into the deficit! Which does make the whole thing look more like a PR exercise... A rather stupid one IMO though, as the conservatives are alienating more potential voters who claimed benefits, than they are pleasing voters who didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 The thing I find very odd in all these changes to the benefits system, is the relatively small cost to the country of benefits. It's not going to save us all that much money when JSA makes up about 1% of government expenditure. Imagine JSA was completely abolished, the saving wouldn't even put a noticeable dent into the deficit! Which does make the whole thing look more like a PR exercise... A rather stupid one IMO though, as the conservatives are alienating more potential voters who claimed benefits, than they are pleasing voters who didn't. It's nothing more than punishment of the most vulnerable in society Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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