2 muslim pupils barred from main school

[Waldo]

I struggle to see what's wrong, people want a beard let them have one, i bet teachers aren't stopped. When I was at school most of the teachers looked like a bag of *** tied in the middle.

 

I suspect this has absolutely nothing to do with facial hair. It has everything to do with 2 groups who hold conflicting paradigms, and wish to express their own, and at the same time, suppress any competing paradigm.

[WeX]

If the school has had this policy for some time (which I suspect is the case) and these pupils want to challenge it, thats their right, but the school has the right to enforce its own policies. I bet this ban on beards has been in force for many years and probably well before the first muslim stepped inside the school.

 

In fact its not a requirement for these boys to have a beard as the rule is all mature Muslims need to have a beard. These boys are not mature and so can shave it off. The religious angle is being used again to get what someone wants and if you speak out against it, they and others use the "r" word.

[Zamo]

..and this is where you go too far. Beards are as much a part of 'western culture' as they are anywhere else.

 

We also don't know the outcome of this story-the boys were barred from school, they may well have returned clean shaven, yet it doesn't stop this extremely trivial incident being seized upon and used as an example of Muslims getting their own way.

 

They asked for special dispensation on the grounds of religious beliefs. No.

 

People get annoyed because schools will so often back down. How many schools now pay extra to have all their school diner meat halal? Why are the religious beliefs of a few parents/children more important than parents who might object on the grounds that it is cruel? Chip, chip needs to be replaced by no, no. It is't how we do things here and we don't want to do things like you do in Muslim countries because we do not like what we see.

 

I suspect this has absolutely nothing to do with facial hair. It has everything to do with 2 groups who hold conflicting paradigms, and wish to express their own, and at the same time, suppress any competing paradigm.

 

And what will it be like if Muslims make up a quarter, then a third, then half of the country? Unless we get them to adapt now then they will not need to compromise.

 

In fact its not a requirement for these boys to have a beard as the rule is all mature Muslims need to have a beard. These boys are not mature and so can shave it off. The religious angle is being used again to get what someone wants and if you speak out against it, they and others use the "r" word.

 

Many Muslims shave (even the men) so it clearly isn't a requirement unless you are following a particularly strict version of the religion/culture... and that is what we don't want in this country.

[WeX]

Many Muslims shave (even the men) so it clearly isn't a requirement unless you are following a particularly strict version of the religion/culture... and that is what we don't want in this country.

 

Yes I agree, but we come across this kind of twisting of the text all the time. Just look at the burka debate. Nowhere in the Quran does it say women have to be completely covered. The same goes for the beards. The Quran says mature men must grow a beard no shorter than a fist, it does not say children should grow beards.

 

What we see here is yet again someone interpreting a religious book to suit their own agenda. I think its also more endemic of the Muslim population. Their numbers have grown and they now feel they can test the boundaries of the host country.

[boyfriday]

They asked for special dispensation on the grounds of religious beliefs. No.

Which of course they're perfectly entitled to do. Note the salient point-the school didn't take a blind bit of notice and suspended the boys from school.

 

CONCLUSION: NON-STORY.

 

And what will it be like if Muslims make up a quarter, then a third, then half of the country? Unless we get them to adapt now then they will not need to compromise.

 

Apocalypse now!!

 

I used to hear this reasoning applied to Jamaicans in the 70's that due to our extraordinary powers of breeding (another fallacy) we'd turn the UK black within 3 generations. The irony being that through integration, it's actually black British faces getting paler and disappearing.

 

Yes I know you'll rant on about Muslims not integrating, but a significant number do, as will their children and their children's children.

 

---------- Post added 27-11-2013 at 14:29 ----------

 

Nowhere in the Quran does it say women have to be completely covered. The same goes for the beards.

 

Nowhere in British law does if say you can't be covered or have a beard either.

[Zamo]

Apocalypse now!!

 

I used to hear this reasoning applied to Jamaicans in the 70's that due to our extraordinary powers of breeding (another fallacy) we'd turn the UK black within 3 generations. The irony being that through integration, it's actually black British faces getting paler and disappearing.

 

Yes I know you'll rant on about Muslims not integrating, but a significant number do, as will their children and their children's children.

 

Not apocalyse now but maybe future... have the joys of Islamic culture in Muslim countries escaped your notice?

 

The difference with Jamaicans was 1. They did not have a mental religion/culture that they couldn't let go of. 2. There was only about 1.5million Jamaicans in the whole of Jamaica (back in the 60's). We already have 3million Muslims and the numbers are swelling due to accelerated breeding and immigration... the scale is massive in comparison.

 

And don't get too worried about black faces dying out. If you go to London you will find several boroughs where white folk are now the minority and you will be pleased to know that the black folk have managed to retain a decent hue!

[Deniarosa]

digest this my 2 granddaughters were told by there school they had to go on atrip to a mosque and there father objected he was labelled racsist when he asked how many muslim schoolchildren visited Christian churches nobody could answer also at this school lessons on the Koran are given are lessons in

Christianity given to muslim children?-no they are not .As per my first post it

needs equal treatment from booth parties and it will never happen

[boyfriday]

Not apocalyse now but maybe future... have the joys of Islamic culture in Muslim countries escaped your notice?

Not in the slightest, that's why I choose my holiday destinations very carefully.

 

The difference with Jamaicans was 1. They did not have a mental religion/culture that they couldn't let go of.

Eating dog food/ condensed milk sandwiches? Wearing 'jaunty' clothes? Practicing voodoo and sacrificing chickens? Banging all your neglected womenfolk? I could go on....

 

2. There was only about 1.5million Jamaicans in the whole of Jamaica (back in the 60's). We already have 3million Muslims and the numbers are swelling due to accelerated breeding and immigration... the scale is massive in comparison.

Larger scale, sure, but still subject to the same influences you and I are, their absorption into the British melting pot will just take longer.

 

And don't get too worried about black faces dying out.

 

Worried? Why would I worry about that? My grandchildren are far more likely to look like you than me...on reflection that is something to worry about

[Halibut]

digest this my 2 granddaughters were told by there school they had to go on atrip to a mosque and there father objected he was labelled racsist when he asked how many muslim schoolchildren visited Christian churches nobody could answer also at this school lessons on the Koran are given are lessons in

Christianity given to muslim children?-no they are not .As per my first post it

needs equal treatment from booth parties and it will never happen

 

Incidentally, why did their father object?

 

Two schools that I have personal knowledge of have sent their mainly Muslim children to the mosque, church, synangogue and Sikh temple.

 

Muslim children in schools study the same RE curriculum as non Muslim pupils, which includes learning about Christianity as well.

[WeX]

Nowhere in British law does if say you can't be covered or have a beard either.

 

No it doesnt. It does in parts of the EU now in response to exactly what I described. However Schools are entitled to enforce their own dress policy and if that means no beards, these pupils should conform or be excluded. They can challenge it and the school will then be able to spend some time evaluating its policy, but if it chooses to keep the rule, these pupils have no rights to ignore it.