Safer now than 20 years ago?

[blake]

there is no two ways about it. The overall homcide (which includes manslaughter as well as murder) rate in Britain is HALF what is was twenty years ago and homicde is the most difficult of all violent crimes, for anybody to massage statistically. All this has been all over the media for the past year or so. Not only has violence been falling in Britain but it has been falling in other rich countries too in the past decade and more. I have read literally dozens of news articles and op-eds about it in recent months and not just relating to Britain only. Violence seems to be falling in the richer developed countries at least, across the globe.

 

this BBC article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22275280 gives a map which shows regional variation in the UK.

 

Of the UK's "urban areas", the index found Glasgow, with a murder rate of double the national average, to be the least peaceful and Cardiff and Swansea, with 60% less violent crime than Glasgow, the most peaceful.

 

Sheffield, Nottingham and Leeds came second, third and fourth respectively behind Cardiff in the urban areas peacefulness ranking.

[Michael_W]

Here is a link to a website, which has a database list of convicted murderers in Britain going back quite a long time, if that list is anything to go by then someone is getting their numbers wrong or simply covering up the truth

 

http://www.britishmurders.co.uk/chronology.php?time=1381010310

[boyfriday]

Here is a link to a website, which has a database list of convicted murderers in Britain going back quite a long time, if that list is anything to go by then someone is getting their numbers wrong or simply covering up the truth

 

http://www.britishmurders.co.uk/chronology.php?time=1381010310

 

 

I've only looked at a few individual records, but if they're including attempted murders in the statistics then it's not a comprehensive or accurate database of murders.

 

http://www.britishmurders.co.uk/murder-content.php?key=10799&name=Robert%20Wemyss

 

http://www.britishmurders.co.uk/murder-content.php?key=13687&name=Aqab%20Hussain

 

They're also including deaths resulting from dangerous or careless driving

 

http://www.britishmurders.co.uk/murder-content.php?key=10757&name=Craig%20John%20Simpson

 

http://www.britishmurders.co.uk/murder-content.php?key=11144&name=Courtney%20Meppen-Walter

 

There wasn't a lot of that about in the 1900's

[blake]

as at least one other poster has said, you should be able to tell anyway from just driving around Sheffield, and walking in the city centre, that it is safer now, than it was then. It should not be a surprise that rich post-industrial countries like this one, where education with stuff like road safety and fire prevention really starts to kick in, get safer. The ones that are getting more dangerous/less safe, are not like the UK, but developing countries that are having to cope with great economic and social change, very quickly and with an infrastructure that stuggles to keep up with it.

[Michael_W]

I've only looked at a few individual records, but if they're including attempted murders in the statistics then it's not a comprehensive or accurate database of murders.

 

http://www.britishmurders.co.uk/murder-content.php?key=10799&name=Robert%20Wemyss

 

http://www.britishmurders.co.uk/murder-content.php?key=13687&name=Aqab%20Hussain

 

They're also including deaths resulting from dangerous or careless driving

 

http://www.britishmurders.co.uk/murder-content.php?key=10757&name=Craig%20John%20Simpson

 

http://www.britishmurders.co.uk/murder-content.php?key=11144&name=Courtney%20Meppen-Walter

 

There wasn't a lot of that about in the 1900's

 

Well I did say 'if that list is anything to go by', there is no guarantee of it's accuracy ..... however the list of convicted murderers on the list in 1993 is about a third of the number they have for 2012 .... 2013 of course is not over yet.

As for feeling safe walking about nowadays compared to back in the 90s, the 70s or even further back, how can anybody make a reasonable comparison ? I did not have any more fear back in the 70s than now, what I do know is statistics are created these days to distort reality, we are a results orientated society now, and nobody likes to admit failures ..... IMHO

 

---------- Post added 06-10-2013 at 09:47 ----------

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7777635.stm

 

Here is a link to a list from the BBC website in 2009, it is just a list of murdered teenagers in 2008-2009 .... now hand on heart can anybody on here tell me or find information similar and relevant to the year 1993 ? (that's 20 years ago).

I would be very surprised if teen murders were as high back then, teen gang knife and gun crime took a surge in those years .. of course football hooliganism may have been higher back in 1993, and while that would have been recorded as violent crime, it rarely resulted in people being knifed or shot and killed.

 

---------- Post added 06-10-2013 at 09:51 ----------

 

 

 

Another article without googling too much here:

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/1000-knife-crime-victims-in-london-each-month-shocking-new-figures-show-8681511.html

 

I'm waiting for someone to give me the details of similar or worse in 1993

[boyfriday]

Well I did say 'if that list is anything to go by', there is no guarantee of it's accuracy .....

Dearest Michael, I was merely highlighting the inaccuracies you'd alluded to

however the list of convicted murderers on the list in 1993 is about a third of the number they have for 2012 .... 2013 of course is not over yet.

 

Which means I wouldn't rely on any of the data contained in the list!

 

As for feeling safe walking about nowadays compared to back in the 90s, the 70s or even further back, how can anybody make a reasonable comparison ? I did not have any more fear back in the 70s than now, what I do know is statistics are created these days to distort reality, we are a results orientated society now, and nobody likes to admit failures ..... IMHO

..and you're dead right. In fact I had more tangles in the 70's than I do now, probably because ones fighting capabilities wither with age..ask eastbank

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7777635.stm

 

Here is a link to a list from the BBC website in 2009, it is just a list of murdered teenagers in 2008-2009 .... now hand on heart can anybody on here tell me or find information similar and relevant to the year 1993 ? (that's 20 years ago).

I would be very surprised if teen murders were as high back then, teen gang knife and gun crime took a surge in those years .. of course football hooliganism may have been higher back in 1993, and while that would have been recorded as violent crime, it rarely resulted in people being knifed or shot and killed.

An interesting comparison, football violence and racism on the terraces was rife back in the 70's-one reason I chose not to go regularly. Whereas now it's hardly heard of. I'd agree with your anecdotal assessment about murders involving teenagers though. But given that it's still (relatively) rare to be a victim of murder I wonder how may teenagers would trade that remote possibility for the almost weekly encounters we had with trouble and violence in the 70's?

 

Another article without googling too much here:

 

[/color]http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/1000-knife-crime-victims-in-london-each-month-shocking-new-figures-show-8681511.html

 

I'm waiting for someone to give me the details of similar or worse in 1993

 

You're going to have to do the spadework yourself fella (and that doesn't mean looking for crimes specifically involving black people)

[Halibut]

Hey all

 

I've just had quite an interesting debate with the OH, which I lost Unfortunately for you, I've decided to air my views (right or wrong as they may be!!) on here, in order to get a better cross section of opinions...

 

I dared to put across my feelings that I do not feel quite as safe as I did back in the 90's, and he challenged this. Now, I am only one person in millions, but I genuinely do fear more for my safety now than I did when I was 20 something. I personally put this down to a general feeling that crime is higher, especially crime against the person, and lo and behold, he came up with proof that I was incorrect.

 

I can't dispute those statistics, and I'm at a loss as to how they might otherwise have fallen, but I would estimate that at least some of it falls on the lack of policing, and a lack of people coming forward to report. This though cannot account for the drop. The argument seems to be that media is much better these days at making crime well known...

 

My question is this - do any of you feel less safe, or more safe, or exactly the same, as you did in the past two decades, and why is this? I live in a fairly nice part of Hillsborough, and I simply can't turn off the voices that tell me I'm at risk. Am I just completely paranoid, or is there a reason why I feel this way?

 

I feel as safe as I ever did.

 

You do sound rather paranoid. Try binning your television and doing something positive for other people.

[Bypassblade]

much safer now than 20 years ago. Crime is lower, especially violent crime, traffic fatalities have almost halved, and even people dying in fires, has lessened by 40%. It is just a much safer place now, than it was then.

 

As is said reported crime is down as lots don't bother, I think today is more violent I've gone through 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's & this decade, I can say hand on heart I don't feel safe now almost every week there is a story of someone being stabbed, or shot in town & surrounding areas.

 

I would not let my grandkids go out like we used to morning till dusk, there are too many sickos about now grooming kids, pedophiles and just down right yobs creating anti social behaviour they call it nowadays.

 

Safer now, not by a long chalk.

[Michael_W]

Dearest Michael, I was merely highlighting the inaccuracies you'd alluded to

 

Old habits eh

 

Which means I wouldn't rely on any of the data contained in the list!

 

I don't rely on data in any list, particularly data that misrepresents the truth !

 

..and you're dead right. In fact I had more tangles in the 70's than I do now, probably because ones fighting capabilities wither with age..ask eastbank

 

Fighting ability is not necessary when armed with a blade or a gun.

 

An interesting comparison, football violence and racism on the terraces was rife back in the 70's-one reason I chose not to go regularly. Whereas now it's hardly heard of. I'd agree with your anecdotal assessment about murders involving teenagers though. But given that it's still (relatively) rare to be a victim of murder I wonder how may teenagers would trade that remote possibility for the almost weekly encounters we had with trouble and violence in the 70's?

 

I don't entirely agree with your racism being rife on the terraces comment, but if I am not mistaken we discussed our differing opinions a couple of years ago, I used to go to Hillsborough with a black friend of mine back then and we never heard or saw anything that would have bothered him.

 

You're going to have to do the spadework yourself fella (and that doesn't mean looking for crimes specifically involving black people)

 

I have no inclination to do such a thing my narrow minded friend, though I doubt I would have to look far to be honest

[denlin]

Ths is true BPB - reported crime is down because there's no point in reporting it because

 

A: either the police don't waste their time trning up

or

B: if it does get to court the little darlings are given a slap on the wrist and told not to be naughty boy/girls:roll:

 

one case which was reported on here where some toe rags set fire to someones hanging basket next to the front door which could potentially have led to fatalities but the householder caught one of the little scroats while his wife rang the police. They were told to hand the low life the phone to ask if he was being held against his will and that he could go. The householder was then told he could be prosecuted if the OFFENDER wanted to press charges. Yes REPORTED crime is down and no wonder:rant::rant: