angos Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 I didn't know there was a culture of using weapons at scouts meetings. The mixture of gun culture and a promise that you believe in a higher being (God) is scary in itself. The religious aspect alone is enough for me to steer my kids away from it, let alone gun use. Do the girl scouts get to play with guns or do they just bake n stuff? The girls in scouting are equals and get to do everything the boys do, canoeing, climbing, archery, shooting, camping, tracking, cooking, building shelter, fires, survival training, first aid training, fire safety in the home, to name but a few. None of it was compulsory including the religious aspect, child and perents could opt out of any activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamf Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 We've had a few of those too... The SA new parents leaflet is entitled "Where did all the mud come from?!" to forestall that. I have two colours of kit on my camps. Snow and mud. This one? I like it. http://members.scouts.org.uk/documents/supportandresources/Administration/Parent_Pack.pdf You might like the Free Range Kids blog too: http://www.freerangekids.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 The girls in scouting are equals and get to do everything the boys do, canoeing, climbing, archery, shooting, camping, tracking, cooking, building shelter, fires, survival training, first aid training, fire safety in the home, to name but a few. None of it was compulsory including the religious aspect, child and perents could opt out of any activity. As they found out at the weekend the girls could easily out shoot the boys which made the bragging from the lads stop very quickly... We've a camp for later on in the year, it'll involve almost everything that you listed above apart from kayaking/canoes including the "wake them up at 3am give them 5 minutes to get kit, drive them off in a blacked out minibus and then dump them somewhere and let them get back unaided" Parents were horrified when they found out. The scouts begged us non stop for weeks to do it again as they had the time of their lives. Me I stalk the Scouts so they are not actually abandoned, but they don't know that of course which is the idea... ---------- Post added 07-10-2013 at 11:52 ---------- You might like the Free Range Kids blog too: http://www.freerangekids.com/ Oh yes the insanity that can be "justified" in the names of child safety. I've had parents demand to know what I know about raising children. I always reply I've never raised children, I raise adults and that generally involves treating them as such... I'm firmly convinced there are three sorts of parents. There are ones that don't bother parenting and I hardly ever see their children as they don't bother to even send them to Scouts. Perhaps 5% of them fit this and I hardly ever see them - I'm convinced we are just considered to be a cheap baby sitting service whilst they go down the pub... Then we have those who wrap them in cotton wool and the best way to persude them that they might just be wrong is pester power and get the children begging to come back and do all the insane things that the parents hate. We even had a few come along to make sure their little darlings were safe (a bad idea as no child wants mum and dad along on a Scout evening). Occassionally we get one that actually becomes a leader and starts to realise that this sort of thing can be fun. I reckon 20% of them are cotton wool wrappers... They can be nightmares when there is an issue - I once had one of their little darlings slice his wrist open after he tripped holding a bottle of juice (that they had packed for him) despite my "no glass" rule on camp. That involved my suturing his artery up with dental floss to stop the leak whilst waiting for the ambulance which is not quick when there is a long walk in.. She was all "having the law" on me until one of the other parents pointed out that he'd probably have bled out and the cause was her violation of the no glass rule... and that the suture whilst unorthodox was good enough for field medicine. It's hard to argue with her as well as she is a surgeon and knows a bit about the subject Then you have normal parents that have a sensible attitude to risk, back you up on disciplining their kids if needed (ie I will boot them off of camp for misbehaviour and I will make that stick). These are the sort that are concerned if there are accidents, but are understanding that they do happen, because if if hadn't happened at Scouts it would have elsewhere... I'd guess that about 75% of all parents fall into this group thankfully. Meh that's a bit of a rant really. Parents. Pains in the backside all of them in their way I guess, a pox on them and their houses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 And again I'll ask you to define what you mean by gun culture before we can have any meaningful debate on this. You mean like your following? Oh yes the insanity that can be "justified" in the names of child safety. I've had parents demand to know what I know about raising children. I always reply I've never raised children, I raise adults and that generally involves treating them as such... I'm firmly convinced there are three sorts of parents. There are ones that don't bother parenting and I hardly ever see their children as they don't bother to even send them to Scouts. Perhaps 5% of them fit this and I hardly ever see them - I'm convinced we are just considered to be a cheap baby sitting service whilst they go down the pub... Then we have those who wrap them in cotton wool and the best way to persude them that they might just be wrong is pester power and get the children begging to come back and do all the insane things that the parents hate. We even had a few come along to make sure their little darlings were safe (a bad idea as no child wants mum and dad along on a Scout evening). Occassionally we get one that actually becomes a leader and starts to realise that this sort of thing can be fun. I reckon 20% of them are cotton wool wrappers... They can be nightmares when there is an issue - I once had one of their little darlings slice his wrist open after he tripped holding a bottle of juice (that they had packed for him) despite my "no glass" rule on camp. That involved my suturing his artery up with dental floss to stop the leak whilst waiting for the ambulance which is not quick when there is a long walk in.. She was all "having the law" on me until one of the other parents pointed out that he'd probably have bled out and the cause was her violation of the no glass rule... and that the suture whilst unorthodox was good enough for field medicine. It's hard to argue with her as well as she is a surgeon and knows a bit about the subject Then you have normal parents that have a sensible attitude to risk, back you up on disciplining their kids if needed (ie I will boot them off of camp for misbehaviour and I will make that stick). These are the sort that are concerned if there are accidents, but are understanding that they do happen, because if if hadn't happened at Scouts it would have elsewhere... I'd guess that about 75% of all parents fall into this group thankfully. Meh that's a bit of a rant really. Parents. Pains in the backside all of them in their way I guess, a pox on them and their houses... that wasn't debate, that was you urinating yourself...You seem a VERY angry toggle wearer, or whatever it is you wear ...no wonder you're having an impact on concerned parents. As for "Gun Culture"..I mean the broader issues of guns as an item, not you sitting in a tent with a pop gun showing children, regardless of safety. Safety isn't the issue. We in this country do not have a serious issue with guns, other than isolated incidents, primarily because our country outlaws them, hence our culture limits then to warfare. If the Scouts feel that teaching children as part of them becoming "adults" as you say, then you'll have no problem with guns in schools becoming part of the curriculum? which would in effect create a gun culture. It seems I guess that a parent has had a word in your shell like and you've come running to forum for absolution with pop gun stories as kids. Yep, we've all had them. Interestingly though as we grow from our childhood into adulthood, playing with guns seems very unimportant and we grow out of it. I suspect the reasoning is our culture isn't dependant on it. ---------- Post added 07-10-2013 at 22:03 ---------- The girls in scouting are equals and get to do everything the boys do, canoeing, climbing, archery, shooting, camping, tracking, cooking, building shelter, fires, survival training, first aid training, fire safety in the home, to name but a few. None of it was compulsory including the religious aspect, child and perents could opt out of any activity. Why aren't they called "Scouts"? At what seems like "Scout leader" exasperation. As for religion: https://members.scouts.org.uk/factsheets/FS322016.pdf https://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search/?cat=25,285 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 Why aren't they called "Scouts"? At what seems like "Scout leader" exasperation. As for religion: https://members.scouts.org.uk/factsheets/FS322016.pdf https://members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/search/?cat=25,285 Why aren't who called scouts? What about religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted October 7, 2013 Author Share Posted October 7, 2013 You mean like your following? that wasn't debate, I never claimed it was that was you urinating yourself...You seem a VERY angry toggle wearer, or whatever it is you wear ...no wonder you're having an impact on concerned parents. Oh dear, can you really not comment without resorting to name calling? As for "Gun Culture"..I mean the broader issues of guns as an item, not you sitting in a tent with a pop gun showing children, regardless of safety. Safety isn't the issue. We in this country do not have a serious issue with guns, other than isolated incidents, primarily because our country outlaws them No it doesn't. Otherwise you wouldn't have people going rifle shooting, using them for vermin control, clay pigeon shooting, etc, etc... hence our culture limits then to warfare. If the Scouts feel that teaching children as part of them becoming "adults" as you say, then you'll have no problem with guns in schools becoming part of the curriculum? I learned to shoot rifles at school - .22LR and .303 The attached cadet corps also had them. which would in effect create a gun culture. Which you still haven't defined - you just refer to it without explaining what you mean. It seems I guess that a parent has had a word in your shell like and you've come running to forum for absolution with pop gun stories as kids. No I came asking for peoples opinions, even yours is valued. It's clear you have major issues with Scouting though so I'm interested as to why. As for the parent "having a word" that word consisted of them blowing up at full volume and threatening to come back and do me over with a baseball bat if I ever taught his son about guns. Charming fellow. Perhaps we should stop this dangerous baseball culture we have. Either way his sons been removed and if they come back then the police will pay him another visit. Yep, we've all had them. Interestingly though as we grow from our childhood into adulthood, playing with guns seems very unimportant and we grow out of it. I suspect the reasoning is our culture isn't dependant on it. Your little bit may not be. Round here I suspect there will be a couple of shotguns in every farm building, and a considerable number in the private housing as well. Why aren't they called "Scouts"? They are called Scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I never claimed it was Correct. But it's a bit rich asking for meaningful debate with a rant. Are you saying your rant isn't debatable? Oh dear, can you really not comment without resorting to name calling? I'm sorry, Scouts don't wear toggles? My mistake. No it doesn't. Otherwise you wouldn't have people going rifle shooting, using them for vermin control, clay pigeon shooting, etc, etc... I'm not bothered what YOU use them for, that isn't the issue. What is is the "etc..etc". I learned to shoot rifles at school - .22LR and .303 The attached cadet corps also had them. Schools? Store .303's? Which you still haven't defined - you just refer to it without explaining what you mean. Stop being so obtuse. No I came asking for peoples opinions, even yours is valued. It's clear you have major issues with Scouting though so I'm interested as to why. As for the parent "having a word" that word consisted of them blowing up at full volume and threatening to come back and do me over with a baseball bat if I ever taught his son about guns. Charming fellow. Perhaps we should stop this dangerous baseball culture we have. Either way his sons been removed and if they come back then the police will pay him another visit. Well that's a convenient newadd on slant on "How to make parents dislike you". I have no issues with Scouting. I do have issue with guns, religion, gender and those that promote it, even if the intent isn't there. Your little bit may not be. Round here I suspect there will be a couple of shotguns in every farm building, and a considerable number in the private housing as well. "Round here"? I don't know what that means. I don't know where "around here" is, and more than likely totally irrelevant. They are called Scouts. Boy Scouts. Girl Scouts. Why not just Scouts? Surely you don't need to state the obvious to see the obvious. Anyway, that's a whole new debate, although important when enrolling your children in what seems a religiously orientated organisation with gender issues, not to mention introducing children to weapons. If this was a "Imam teaches young pupils how to use and fire weapons" the thread wouldn't last 3 posts before moderation kicked in due to DM outrage. And quite rightly so. Keep guns away from kids, any kids...and other messed up adult issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmack Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Correct. But it's a bit rich asking for meaningful debate with a rant. Are you saying your rant isn't debatable? I'm sorry, Scouts don't wear toggles? My mistake. I'm not bothered what YOU use them for, that isn't the issue. What is is the "etc..etc". Schools? Store .303's? Stop being so obtuse. Well that's a convenient newadd on slant on "How to make parents dislike you". I have no issues with Scouting. I do have issue with guns, religion, gender and those that promote it, even if the intent isn't there. "Round here"? I don't know what that means. I don't know where "around here" is, and more than likely totally irrelevant. Boy Scouts. Girl Scouts. Why not just Scouts? Surely you don't need to state the obvious to see the obvious. Anyway, that's a whole new debate, although important when enrolling your children in what seems a religiously orientated organisation with gender issues, not to mention introducing children to weapons. If this was a "Imam teaches young pupils how to use and fire weapons" the thread wouldn't last 3 posts before moderation kicked in due to DM outrage. And quite rightly so. Keep guns away from kids, any kids...and other messed up adult issues. I just think live and let live. If parents want to enrol there kids in a religiously motivated organisation. You may not like religion very much but a lot of people do. Also most kids grow into mature, intelligent people who will decide on religion by themselves. I agree with you on the gender front and am slightly sympathetic on the gun front but think people should really do what they want as long as it does not harm others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinz Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I just think live and let live. If parents want to enrol there kids in a religiously motivated organisation. You may not like religion very much but a lot of people do. Also most kids grow into mature, intelligent people who will decide on religion by themselves. I agree with you on the gender front and am slightly sympathetic on the gun front but think people should really do what they want as long as it does not harm others. We are the advanced species on this planet, you wouldn't think it would you? You're right that children do grow and mature, but teaching our kids through the promotion of the idea that your gender is important other than what is obvious, seems a bit odd. Even the Girl Scouts are up in arms about it. My Bold: I couldn't agree more. But once you introduce religion, that for me is a cause of concern as it isn't "live and let live". Actually the proof is in the pudding..if you believe in a pixie you'll believe in anything, inc weapons, guns, gender, race, and many other issues, it tends to come as a package. You only have to look around at what's happening in the name of it. The Scouts do promote this, even if that promotion is disguised by canoeing, camp fire songs, and one legged races etc. We don't need guns and God to live full lives. Hands up those who have guns a God in their lives who would turn empty and barren if they were all of a sudden to disappear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I have no issues with Scouting. I do have issue with guns, religion, gender and those that promote it, even if the intent isn't there. If scouting ignored gender and the religious beliefs of its members, I'm sure you would be here ranting about girls and boys sleeping in the same tent, or why they don't cater for the food and modesty requirements of Muslims. Boy Scouts. Girl Scouts. Why not just Scouts? Surely you don't need to state the obvious to see the obvious. They are just scouts, one group of girls and boys working together. If this was a "Imam teaches young pupils how to use and fire weapons" the thread wouldn't last 3 posts before moderation kicked in due to DM outrage. And quite rightly so. Keep guns away from kids, any kids...and other messed up adult issues. So in you eyes this group of scouts represents everything you dislike about scouting. The Girl Scout Promise On my honor, I will try: to serve Allah and my country, to help people at all times, and to live by the Girl Scout Law. The following is just a snapshot of some programs and projects we do and we are expanding! Throughout the past few years, these programs include: World Thinking Day, Sadaqa Jars Project, Hajj Program, Ice Skating, Camping Skills, Ramadhan Badge Program, Pajama Party, Horseback riding, Gift Baskets for Sick Children, Maple Sugar Festival, Tapestry Fair, Bowling, Whale Watching, Movie Nights, Girls Only Pool Party, Water Drop Patch Program, Cookie Booth Sales, Amaze Journey, Plaster Fun Time, Creative Cooking, Martial Arts, Mom & Me Events and Bullying Awareness Program, Archery and Tents Up Community Service. Not sure why you have an issue with this group of scouts, is it that you think they are being trained to be female ninja assassins. If so you you should seek help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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