RootsBooster Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 This is why my first post answering this question said "it depends on the definition of God and religion being used". Definition God a superhuman being or spirit worshiped as having power over nature or human fortunes; Deva a divine being or god in Hinduism and Buddhism Definition Religion the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods: So by definition any organsiation that doesn't belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power isn't a religion. Interesting that you took the definition for "Deva" from a different dictionary. Also interesting that you didn't quote the full definitions from the one for "Religion" God -(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being. -(god) (in certain other religions) a superhuman being or spirit worshipped as having power over nature or human fortunes; a deity -(god) a greatly admired or influential person -(the gods) informal the gallery in a theatre Deva -a member of a class of divine beings in the Vedic period, which in Indian religion are benevolent and in Zoroastrianism are evil. Compare with asura. -Indian (in general use) a god. Origin: from Sanskrit, literally 'shining one', later 'god' Religion -the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods -a particular system of faith and worship -a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion So a religion, by the definitions available (the same source as yours) do not have to claim there is a god/s ---------- Post added 10-10-2013 at 10:17 ---------- yes and there was a time when the only rich people around were the catholic church:hihi: go to some places in africa and amongst the extreme poverty every so often there will be a couple of beautiful, expensive buildings-a catholic church and opposite, a mosque! Don't forget the millionaire "Preachers of LA" Here and Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nem88 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 R.E. like any other subject should teach facts. They should not be teaching people what to believe or how to be religious. It should cover all top tier religions in some detail, and touch on mid tier, with additional of religion in law and impact on society. There should not be any bias. The question (‘What is your religion?’) 59% of the population identified themselves as Christian http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/census/2011-census/key-statistics-for-local-authorities-in-england-and-wales/rpt-religion.html#tab-Changing-picture-of-religious-affiliation-over-last-decade We can assume many of these are not practising, and some perhaps don't even believe much of the teaching (For example, my mother was baptised and identified on the census as Christian, but does not practice and is actually undecided over god.) A group Athiests had a display on Fargate, leaflets etc. I can't remember the actual name of the organisation, but they seemed to be well organised and official. They were as blinded by their beliefs as any High Church God botherer, and not open to any discussion at all. I was surprised by their intolerance and hardline attitudes, (and rudeness.) Nobody knows anything for sure, but their certainty was chilling and as fundamentalist as anything you'd come across. It seems they want to crush the church completely - mainly it seems because of political reasons and cost, regardless of what it might do to people's personal beliefs and communities. Rather stupidly I'd assumed that they would have had a live and let live attitude, ('we don't believe but understand others might') but not a bit of it. I was reminded of communist Russia... They absolutely refused to countanance even the vaguest possibility that there might be more to this world than is visible (even scientists have a more open mind on that one) to the point of being abusive (I always try to listen and remain polite but these good manners were not returned.) I suppose I should have expected it, but I've never met anyone who hasn't respected another's point of view even if they didn't agree with it. All in all an unpleasant encounter and a bad advertisement for their organisation I thought. This sounds like Antitheism rather than Atheism. wiki; Antitheism (sometimes anti-theism) is active opposition to theism. The term has had a range of applications; in secular contexts, it typically refers to direct opposition to organized religion or to the belief in any deity, while in a theistic context, it sometimes refers to opposition to a specific god or gods. Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism,which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Religion -the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods -a particular system of faith and worship -a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion So a religion, by the definitions available (the same source as yours) do not have to claim there is a god/s In this system of faith and worship, what are they worshiping? http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/worship The feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity: Deity a god or goddess Deva -a member of a class of divine beings divine meaning of or like God or a god So basically you are claiming Buddhist worship something this is like a God but not God. Since no one can define God it stands to reason that anything like a God is probably a God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 In this system of faith and worship, what are they worshiping? http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/worship The feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity: Deity a god or goddess Deva -a member of a class of divine beings divine meaning of or like God or a god So basically you are claiming Buddhist worship something this is like a God but not God. Since no one can define God it stands to reason that anything like a God is probably a God. No, I'm not making that claim. Once again you're using selective quoting (and also putting words in my mouth). Quote from your source... -the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity -religious rites or ceremonies, constituting a formal expression of reverence for a deity -great admiration or devotion shown towards a person or principle -archaic honour given to someone in recognition of their merit. -[as title] (His/Your Worship) chiefly British used in addressing or referring to an important or high-ranking person, especially a magistrate or mayor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 No, I'm not making that claim. Once again you're using selective quoting (and also putting words in my mouth). Quote from your source... So you are using this definition of religion A pursuit or interest followed with great devotion: Example people follow a football club or a pop star religiously. Worshiping the ground they walk on. As opposed to this, Religion the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 So you are using this definition of religion A pursuit or interest followed with great devotion: Example people follow a football club or a pop star religiously. Worshiping the ground they walk on. As opposed to this, Religion the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods: No, I'm not using that. I would have thought the bold text would have made it obvious the first time round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 No, I'm not using that. I would have thought the bold text would have made it obvious the first time round. Clearly not, so what definition of religion are you using. Because its not this one. Religion the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 MrSmith's dictionary time. When he squeezes the joy out of life, and turns words upside down. Anyway, buddhism doesn't worship a God. Neither does Scientology. A million words won't turn a truth into a falsehood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Anyway, buddhism doesn't worship a God. Neither does Scientology. A million words won't turn a truth into a falsehood. And if their isn't a God or Gods in their religion, then the the definition of religion being used is this on. a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion: And Buddhisum does have Gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milquetoast1 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 You can when you're on a thread trying to prove that schools are failing in RE - schools which are centred around one particular faith. And UK schools at that. Isn't your poll based on US citizens? Ofsted has made a statement that schools are failing in RE, or more specifically that "many pupils leave school with scant knowledge or understanding of religion and beliefs". I don't know if that's right or wrong, or even how one goes about measuring it because nobody can impose any stated 'purpose' on such a nebulous topic. "The Ofsted report cites a litany of failures in the way RE is taught, including low standards, weak teaching and a confused sense of what the subject is about." I happen to think Ofsted might be correct, and RE is a useful subject to teach, although I would still rank it behind cookery, finances and DIY in terms of usefulness. If it was just the Ofsted report that was being discussed then I doubt I would have added anything, I don't know if it's getting worse or not, or how important it is. However I was amused to read some religious folk try to turn this into an alarmist situation. The Church of England has launched a fierce attack on the government, describing limited resources devoted to training religious education teachers as a scandal that is affecting "an essential part" of every child's studies. I think it's rather obvious what the CofE thinks is the measurable 'purpose' of RE, and in turn I think the rather obvious result of good balanced RE is the exact opposite of their 'purpose'. It's been anecdotally well known that atheists tend to know more about religion to the point that when I mentioned this to my (ex-Muslim) dad last night he replied "no **** Sherlock". The Pew Research is the largest of it's type, which is why I linked to it. It proved what we all knew, that there is a correlation between religious knowledge and belief, or rather lack of. Okay, it's a US study, but how that discredits the correlation god only knows, the correlation is a human behavioural one not a geographical one. Even if you think the US is a nation of know-nothings it still shows that atheist know-nothings know more about religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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