chem1st Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 For too long, our society has wasted much of it's effort on needlessly means-testing people. The various means tests applied to a whole variety of benefits, taxes and services are a complete waste of time and do nothing to improve the living standards of people. People employed in the bureaucracy of means-tests, could spend their time much better. Along with the people subject to them. The UK has a de-facto citizens income, it's basically a minimum income guarantee, but it is means-tested. Instead of carrying out multiple pointless means tests, and having a complicated tax system, we might as well introduce a citizens income as a cost saving measure. And also to ensure fairness, between all members of the society, all age groups, all races, the sexes etc. We already have a de-facto citizens income, with premiums attached for age, physical and mental disability, number of children, geographical location, credit worthiness, law abiding behaviour and so on. But the way in which it is administered is a disaster. We need to simplify taxes and benefits. With a citizens income we can do this. As time progresses we can shift the burden of taxation onto economic rent, rather than individual effort. With a citizens income, we can encourage work for all classes. We can stimulate production, and we can raise the living standards of all. Switzerland is about to have a vote on citizens income. A Switzerland grassroots committee is requesting all Swiss citizens to vote on a basic $2,756 unconditional monthly income for each adult citizen. The purpose is to provide the people a financial safety net. As a financial symbol of hope, IndiaTimes reports that over 8,000,000 five-cent coins were dumped over Switzerland's Federal Square in Bern by committee members who had initiated the "CHF 2,500 monthly for everyone" (Grundeinkommen). Reuters reported that each five-cent-franc represented a person living in Switzerland. Weighing 15-tons, the political event occurred before the delivery of 126,000 ballot signatures to the Chancellery, proposing the constitutional change to implement the initiative. A separate proposal was passed last March, with Swiss voters backing "some of the world's strictest controls on executive pay." Called the 1:12 initiative, it forces public companies to give shareholders a binding vote on compensation. Meanwhile, a separate proposal to be voted on November 24 limits monthly executive pay to be no higher than the annual amount of the company's lowest-paid employee. Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/359720#ixzz2gxN8eHZm With a citizens income (CI), we could ensure a minimum standard of living for all. If we set a maximum income as a multiple of the CI, we could ensure everybody's living standards improve, with technological advancement. Instead of increasing one's income, one would be more concerned, with increasing it's value, and in turn, increasing the wealth of all. The productive capacity of a nation, would part belong to it's citizens, all would have a vested interest in the health/wealth of the nation and it's infrastructure and businesses. People would still have incentives to work, at all times. No longer would we need to employ people to do pointless paperwork with respect to means testing the poorest. And no longer would citizens be encouraged to 'grab a slice of the pie', for all would have a vested interest in the provision of the 'pie'. With a CI, we wouldn't have people fighting over crumbs, we'd have people improving the quality and size of the pie. We wouldn't have pointless arguments over 'benefits', which is essentially compensation in the form of a minimum income guarantee for the poorest due to the removal of economic freedoms due to the privatisation of the nation's land, in order to avoid a revolution. (The lowest benefits at least that is - we do have lots of 'benefits' that are more akin to subsidy of certain groups, which would be the premiums attached for age, physical and mental disability, number of children, geographical location, credit worthiness, law abiding behaviour and so on. There are also other subsidies for certain groups, that are not commonly referred to as benefits - such as CAP payments, pensions, tax credits, certain tax reductions etc.) What do you think? Is time to do away with 'benefits' and replace them with a Citizen Income? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 I'm with you. A basic income for everyone. If you want more out of life, work for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Like the sound of that. Squirrel away what I can before it comes into force then do bugger all till death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Totally behind you on this citizens income, or Negative Income Tax as it's otherwise known. It could be combined with a flat rate income tax, as the guaranteed income would make it progressive. It'd mean for every extra £1 you earn the amount you're taxed on it would remain the same, whether you earn £1 a year or £1 million & nobody would be starving. It'd save a lot of money on administration, which could be used to fund higher benefits than people currently get. I don't see the need for a maximum income though. We may still need to keep some benefits, like disability & child benefits, to cover the increased costs (and reduced earning potential) of living with a severe disability or raising a family. It could replace JSA, Council Tax Benefit, Housing Benefit, state pension, tax credits & many other similar benefits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Totally behind you on this. It could be combined with a flat rate income tax, as the guaranteed income would make it progressive. Joking aside, its worth discussing. It might encourage people to take temporary jobs - you'd have to be mad to do that at the moment because coming off and going back on benefits will often cost you money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Joking aside, its worth discussing. It might encourage people to take temporary jobs - you'd have to be mad to do that at the moment because coming off and going back on benefits will often cost you money. It would eliminate benefit traps. Like you say at the moment if you're on JSA taking temporary, casual or part time work will probably lead to you losing money, it's full time or nothing, particularly if you rely on housing benefit too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Sounds pike a great idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghozer Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 There's one problem with your post, our benefits system is not currently Means-Tested, it was much better when it was, but it isn't any more, and hasn't been for some time... Doesn't really seem any different to what we have now... either that, or I don't get the point / what is different... Currently, it's set how much is required to live on (it's a load of B*******, as it's no where near enough) This is what the benefits add up to (JSA/DLA/ESA, Housing Benefit, Council Tax Benefit... Free Prescriptions, etc...) - and what full time (36.5+ hours/week) work on minimum wage should also add up to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 Sounds pike a great idea Won't get the long term idle shirkers into work but I'm not sure anything will. Time to accept that and help those who want it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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