Red Cross Food Campaign in Struggling UK

[Obelix]

It is well established that certain chronic illnesses can become worse in cold weather, and many of these are illnesses that older people tend to suffer from. Chronic pulmonary disease for example. I can't believe anybody is arguing otherwise.

 

There may be a political element to the payments for sure but there is no doubt that some people need extra help to heat their homes. The payments could probably be targeted better - not all pensioners need the extra help.

 

---------- Post added 13-10-2013 at 19:34 ----------

 

 

The people who fail to believe that pensioners cannot afford to heat their homes, ergo if they can actually afford to heat their homes they shouldn't be dying because of their homes being too cold.

 

Or does the argument now boil down to pensioners bringing it on themselves by making irrational budgeting decisions?

 

Partially yes.

 

There are those who don't heat their homes and suffer the consequences because they are irrationally scared of spending too much money. The WFA is designed to stop this but some don't claim, some claim and don't spend it, some claim and spend it on other things.

 

Then there are the usual perils of winter such as trips and falls on ice, but my understanding is that's a very minor, although not a zero contributor.

 

The biggest problem appears to be the winter flu - and that happens as soon as cooler weather is on us because it's then more easily transmitted. That's why we have the winter flu jab - which people don't take up because they think it might give them flu....*sigh* That's still the case even though houses may be heated just as well as summer because people still need to go out into the cold weather occasionally.

 

One think that it is not is all these people sitting unheated houses freezing to death - but that's the image that the whining lefties appear to be beloved of on here - despite the fact that year on year the excess winter death rates have been falling since the 50's under all forms of government. It's pure political grandstanding by the left and it's disgusting to watch.

[I1L2T3]

All poor people can get free home insulation, that will help them greatly.

 

Indeed. I'm fully behind anything that makes homes more energy efficient. If bills are increasing rapidly it's even more important people take advantage of these schemes.

[*_ash_*]

 

The people who fail to believe that pensioners cannot afford to heat their homes, ergo if they can actually afford to heat their homes they shouldn't be dying because of their homes being too cold.

 

Or does the argument now boil down to pensioners bringing it on themselves by making irrational budgeting decisions?

 

Top bit, But who? Who are these people? (Funnily enough this reminds me of talking with my late Grandma, she would always say 'they say it's...', I would ask her , 'who is this they?'... I never got an answer, just 'they' )

 

Second bit, why on earth would you say that? What an odd thing to write, well to quote me in it is anyway.

[I1L2T3]

Partially yes.

 

There are those who don't heat their homes and suffer the consequences because they are irrationally scared of spending too much money. The WFA is designed to stop this but some don't claim, some claim and don't spend it, some claim and spend it on other things.

 

Then there are the usual perils of winter such as trips and falls on ice, but my understanding is that's a very minor, although not a zero contributor.

 

The biggest problem appears to be the winter flu - and that happens as soon as cooler weather is on us because it's then more easily transmitted. That's why we have the winter flu jab - which people don't take up because they think it might give them flu....*sigh* That's still the case even though houses may be heated just as well as summer because people still need to go out into the cold weather occasionally.

 

One think that it is not is all these people sitting unheated houses freezing to death - but that's the image that the whining lefties appear to be beloved of on here - despite the fact that year on year the excess winter death rates have been falling since the 50's under all forms of government. It's pure political grandstanding by the left and it's disgusting to watch.

 

It's not grandstanding at all. It's an entirely rational response to anything that threatens to make it more difficult for people to heat their homes, especially older people with chronic illnesses. Even older people who are otherwise healthy can suffer from cold weather - blood thickening causing increased risk of stroke or heart attacks, compromised immunity because of the cold leading to issues not just with flu but other viruses and infections.

 

It's a complete counter to those who seek to withdraw support, using the imagined failings of individuals as phoney justification.

 

---------- Post added 13-10-2013 at 19:58 ----------

 

Top bit, But who? Who are these people? (Funnily enough this reminds me of talking with my late Grandma, she would always say 'they say it's...', I would ask her , 'who is this they?'... I never got an answer, just 'they' )

 

Second bit, why on earth would you say that? What an odd thing to write, well to quote me in it is anyway.

 

I'm responding to arguments on this thread.

[Obelix]

It's not grandstanding at all. It's an entirely rational response to anything that threatens to make it more difficult for people to heat their homes, especially older people with chronic illnesses. Even older people who are otherwise healthy can suffer from cold weather - blood thickening causing increased risk of stroke or heart attacks, compromised immunity because of the cold leading to issues not just with flu but other viruses and infections.

 

I'm glad you understand then that it's cold weather not lack of heating in homes that causes the problems. Perhaps we could just heat the entire country during the winter then?

 

It's a complete counter to those who seek to withdraw support, using the imagined failings of individuals as phoney justification.

 

---------- Post added 13-10-2013 at 19:58 ----------

 

 

I'm responding to arguments on this thread.

 

No you are not. You are building a strawman as usual and grandstanding with the woe is they argument.

[El Cid]

Indeed. I'm fully behind anything that makes homes more energy efficient. If bills are increasing rapidly it's even more important people take advantage of these schemes.

 

The line from the Liberal Democrat energy spokeman is that the prices of energy have gone up, but bills are lower because of better insulation.

[tinfoilhat]

It's not grandstanding at all. It's an entirely rational response to anything that threatens to make it more difficult for people to heat their homes, especially older people with chronic illnesses. Even older people who are otherwise healthy can suffer from cold weather - blood thickening causing increased risk of stroke or heart attacks, compromised immunity because of the cold leading to issues not just with flu but other viruses and infections.

 

It's a complete counter to those who seek to withdraw support, using the imagined failings of individuals as phoney justification.

 

---------- Post added 13-10-2013 at 19:58 ----------

 

 

I'm responding to arguments on this thread.

 

I don't anyone is advocating the withdrawal of winter fuel allowance. I, like Labour and the lib dems, would means test it so you can help the genuinely needy over here and not the expats in sunny Spain and beyond. Wont happen though is the rich (voting) pensioners will get the hump.

[I1L2T3]

I'm glad you understand then that it's cold weather not lack of heating in homes that causes the problems. Perhaps we could just heat the entire country during the winter then?

 

 

 

No you are not. You are building a strawman as usual and grandstanding with the woe is they argument.

 

If the weather gets colder, homes if not heated will be colder too, as will the people in them.

 

No straw man, just responses to posts that seek to blame the imagined failings of individuals for society's problems.

 

---------- Post added 13-10-2013 at 20:24 ----------

 

I don't anyone is advocating the withdrawal of winter fuel allowance. I, like Labour and the lib dems, would means test it so you can help the genuinely needy over here and not the expats in sunny Spain and beyond. Wont happen though is the rich (voting) pensioners will get the hump.

 

If means testing it means limited funds are targeted more efficiently I'm all for that.

 

---------- Post added 13-10-2013 at 20:25 ----------

 

The line from the Liberal Democrat energy spokeman is that the prices of energy have gone up, but bills are lower because of better insulation.

 

Bizarre. Have you got a link.

[Obelix]

 

No straw man, just responses to posts that seek to blame the imagined failings of individuals for society's problems.

 

You said that people were seeking to withdraw support. No-ones seeking to withdraw the WFA on this thread. That's your strawman.

[*_ash_*]

 

No straw man, just responses to posts that seek to blame the imagined failings of individuals for society's problems.

 

 

Yeah, my post. Implying me.

 

Perhaps you didn't see what you read. Black / white logic, by the use of the word 'or'. And the second thing hasn't been written either (not that I've seen, but more importantly, certainly not by me).