Anglersvista Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 The coalition built bridges (not just metaphorically) schools, clinics, hospitals, trained the iraqi military, border guards, police, medics, provided medical aid, provided vast employment, and left the country in a far better state than when they entered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Bourne Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 The coalition built bridges (not just metaphorically) schools, clinics, hospitals, trained the iraqi military, border guards, police, medics, provided medical aid, provided vast employment, and left the country in a far better state than when they entered. Didn't Iraq already have schools, hospitals and clinics before the Coalition of the Willing invaded? Why yes, it did! Funny how these things slip your mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglersvista Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 But the ones we built were better, think of it like Barratt Homes in Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Bourne Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 But the ones we built were better, think of it like Barratt Homes in Iraq. Really? That must be why all the Iraqi refugees are queuing up to return. Oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Were we betrothed in a former life Zamo, that sentiment sounds painfully familiar Yeah... I dumped you. But that was part of the problem I tried to engage mikeye on previously-many immigrants on benefits won't have come here 'on benefits', they'll have been hard working individuals who've come across hard times just like the indigenous occasionally do, and just like the indigenous the vast majority will be genuinely seeking work and successfully find it-they're not benefit claimants forever. Indeed but the 'on benefits' bit is still a red-herring because there are many other direct and indirect benefits (read that as costs) that are incurred even when they are not experiencing hard times. The fact remains that many immigrants have been allowed into the country speaking little English, with poor education and no skills that we are in need of. They should be have been turned around at the door because they have nothing to offer but weren't. Their net-negative contribution may be offset by the contributions of other imigrants but that beside the point. However one quality common to most immigrants is that they don't fear change, taking on new challenges or working, what my grandparents did 60 years ago I couldn't ever contemplate for myself, yet thousands did, and continue to do. Some Black, white and Asian British (indigenous for want of a better word) could learn a lot from them. You will receive no argument from me that many people in this country have lost the work ethic and could learn much from people used to having to be self-sufficient. Unfortunately, they won't. I'm not sure I agree that immigrants are less fearful of change. If that were the case then so many would not cling to the cultural beliefs, traditions and practices of the countries they left behind. But I'll say no more on that and will quit whilst the going is good... I need to do some work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hots on Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 BF you can be such hard work! Then don't bother with them; they're only trying to grind you down with tedious circular arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Then don't bother with them; they're only trying to grind you down with tedious circular arguments. Thankfully me & my good friend Zamo have a little history in discussions of this nature, but I'll not grind you down with the detail ---------- Post added 16-10-2013 at 16:41 ---------- Yeah... I dumped you. Darn it, I'm going back to picking up slack lasses in the t'Locarno Indeed but the 'on benefits' bit is still a red-herring because there are many other direct and indirect benefits (read that as costs) that are incurred even when they are not experiencing hard times. I don't disagree but there are indirect taxations we all pay, whether we're in work or not. The fact remains that many immigrants have been allowed into the country speaking little English, with poor education and no skills that we are in need of. They shouldn't be considered unless seeking asylum, of independent means and/or being supported by an employer/family members in the UK, in my opinion. You will receive no argument from me that many people in this country have lost the work ethic and could learn much from people used to having to be self-sufficient. Unfortunately, they won't. I'm not sure I agree that immigrants are less fearful of change. If that were the case then so many would not cling to the cultural beliefs, traditions and practices of the countries they left behind. Is that immigrants or 2nd generation immigrants? The Muslim example is instructive, thousands came here 50+ years ago and they rattled no-ones cage but were often on the receiving end of outrageous treatment, it's only in the last 10/15 years that Islam's become a 'problem', I suspect the reasons for that are multilayered and not solely due to more of them being here. But I'll say no more on that and will quit whilst the going is good... I need to do some work!Do you still love me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinyl Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Then don't bother with them; they're only trying to grind you down with tedious circular arguments. Some folk just have more time to waste than others and will polish a turd rather than concede a point. They will still be here long after you've given up and left 'em to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeye Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 in Page Hall, I lived there in the late 60's, full of West Indians then, Oooo we were neighbours. I was born on Hinde House Lane in 1958... I lived there until aprox 1980... My family still live there. We all went to Earl Marshal school... As I remember during this period ie late 60's there were hardly any West Indians there.. I had a couple of black friends who lived on Popple... but I think the period you're talking about was much later. I think Burgreave and Pitsmoor had a large West Indian (Trevor Bailey?).. population and it wasn't really until Earl Marshal was opened that we saw any substantial numbers around Page Hall... Oh I remember Clive as well from Popple and his younger brother.. can't remember his name though... but they were few and far between.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 We're talking about the visa situation though, which specifically excludes those who arrive illegally and excludes those who intend to immigrate here. Visas or illegal entrants, it's all the same. I'm sick and tired of supposed student migrants coming to the UK to study and just generally abuse the system by enrolling at some dodgy college, never attend and end up buying a degree vetted by an established university. They are full-time students, according to their visas but work well over the permitted 20 hours per week during term time, working and lodging with friends and family by and large. They tend to live at a property for 4 months then move on to somewhere else. They know the Home Office is far too undersourced to catch up with them. Even if they are caught there is an army of dodgy immigration reps, immigration judges and MPs ready to fight to the death of their behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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