U-Turn, Elderly must sell House to pay for Care Home

[ccit]

In today's Daily Mail there is a letter from someone who was told by the local authority to sell their mother's home to pay for care. They researched and challenged this. The outcome was that the house has been rented and they are on 'the deferred payment scheme'.

Based on her pension, but not rental, the LA receives a direct debit from her bank account and they make up the shortfall. It is interest free. When she dies it will be refunded from the estate but this should be covered by the rent, leaving the house intact.

Link.

[Longcol]

If it is simple care in terms of food, and watching over, then why does it cost so much? Nobody seems to question the costs, which are prohibitive. I'd like to see a breakdown of the weekly expenses in looking after an elderly person in a care home, but you never get it.

 

care homes may be profit making organisations, but they're really taking the p***

 

Perhaps because the costs involve a good deal more than "food and watching over".

 

Having worked for a not for profit organisation providing registered care for a number of years I'd be highly surprised if you can deliver the whole package - building (including loan repayments,refuse collection, maintenance, repairs, redecoration etc), 24/7 care, heating, lighting, food etc etc for anything close to £600 pw these days.

[Anna B]

Perhaps because the costs involve a good deal more than "food and watching over".

 

Having worked for a not for profit organisation providing registered care for a number of years I'd be highly surprised if you can deliver the whole package - building (including loan repayments,refuse collection, maintenance, repairs, redecoration etc), 24/7 care, heating, lighting, food etc etc for anything close to £600 pw these days.

 

Then there's something wrong with management.

 

Heating, building costs, repairs etc etc are for the whole building which might house 50+ residents. Not one person. I've known decent hotels charge less, and the service, food, redecoration and so on would probably be much better quality.

 

Lets see a proper breakdown.

 

Of course if PFI (Private Finance Initiative) is involved then building costs could be sky high and liable to go even higher as the contracts give the Landlords carte blanche to charge whatever they like - an open cheque book - there's no upper limit and no control.

But these were another stupid government idea - yet more bad governance from the toffs at the top, this time Labour.

 

I don't see why old age pensioners should have to pay with their life savings for total government incompetance.

[GLASGOWOODS]

If you give up a job to care for an elderly relative, you lose all your wages and you get about £55 a week carers allowance (and then an equivelent amount is stopped from the person being cared for's benefit.)

 

How does that compare with the £600 a week average cost of a care home?

 

Care in the community is probably a lot more expensive.

Especially if a client has additional needs.

 

---------- Post added 19-10-2013 at 08:40 ----------

 

Perhaps because the costs involve a good deal more than "food and watching over".

 

Having worked for a not for profit organisation providing registered care for a number of years I'd be highly surprised if you can deliver the whole package - building (including loan repayments,refuse collection, maintenance, repairs, redecoration etc), 24/7 care, heating, lighting, food etc etc for anything close to £600 pw these days.

 

Liability insurance.

Laundery

Transport costs.

Additional needs.

Entertainment.

There's a whole host of extra's to add on. Some people think you just plonk them in a home and feed n water them.

[Longcol]

Then there's something wrong with management.

 

Heating, building costs, repairs etc etc are for the whole building which might house 50+ residents.

 

Yes, and 50+ people in a building who tend to have heating on 24/7, corridors needing to be lit 24/7, heating / lighting costs adds up.

 

Land and buildings don't come cheap - you're not just providing bedrooms - also extensive communal facilities, kitchens, offices, gardens.

 

My father was in a care home until he died a couple of months ago and the quality of service was excellent - but it sure doesn't come cheap.

[Cyclone]

Care in the community is probably a lot more expensive.

Especially if a client has additional needs.

 

---------- Post added 19-10-2013 at 08:40 ----------

 

 

Liability insurance.

Laundery

Transport costs.

Additional needs.

Entertainment.

There's a whole host of extra's to add on. Some people think you just plonk them in a home and feed n water them.

 

£600 pw would pay for a package holiday, you're not claiming that they provide 5 swimming pools, nightly entertainment and flights too and from Spain once a week are you?

Medical needs are pay for in addition to the basic cost as well right, and should be paid for by the NHS.

[Longcol]

Of course if PFI (Private Finance Initiative) is involved then building costs could be sky high and liable to go even higher as the contracts give the Landlords carte blanche to charge whatever they like - an open cheque book - there's no upper limit and no control.

 

PFI doesn't enter into it.

 

Private sector homes wil have been built using normal commercial loans - recent "public sector" homes have been built by housing associations using a mixture of government grant (ie subsidy) and commercial loans.

[GLASGOWOODS]

£600 pw would pay for a package holiday, you're not claiming that they provide 5 swimming pools, nightly entertainment and flights too and from Spain once a week are you?

Medical needs are pay for in addition to the basic cost as well right, and should be paid for by the NHS.

 

Entertainment could be a variety of things.

Outings..Minibus costs. A lot of homes have a minibus.

Outside agencies brought in to entertain clients.

Have you ever been in a "well run" home and seen a calendar of activities on offer to residents?

Additional nursing care within a home is a separate charge paid by the council.

If a client needs care/treatment that the home can't provide,then of course the NHS pays.

[tinfoilhat]

Entertainment could be a variety of things.

Outings..Minibus costs. A lot of homes have a minibus.

Outside agencies brought in to entertain clients.

Have you ever been in a "well run" home and seen a calendar of activities on offer to residents?

Additional nursing care within a home is a separate charge paid by the council.

If a client needs care/treatment that the home can't provide,then of course the NHS pays.

 

Another good post. Also, if you go on holiday it doesnt three people to take you to the loo, another 3 to give you a bath, and another to feed you. if you want to go to the pool you can go, not need a couple of people to take you.

 

However, you will also get homes charging over the odds not because they offer these things but because they can. When you or your elderly relative are about to get kicked out of hospital you end up in these places.

[poppet2]

Already done signed sealed and delivered

 

Oh dear, you might want to take a look at this.

 

http://www.mindatrest.co.uk/blog/what-is-deliberate-deprivation

 

---------- Post added 19-10-2013 at 13:50 ----------

 

How would they prove that? This particular person has already transferred his assets and has no reason to suppose that he will require care either now or in the future. The local authority have to prove intent.

 

Equity release is one method of enjoying your own money. There could be little left once the company have taken their cut. Another way is just to spend on holidays etc. The LA won't be able to recoup that money because it's spent and gone.

 

My link may help

 

---------- Post added 19-10-2013 at 13:54 ----------

 

The burden of proof is on the local authority. If it came to law they would have to prove intent i.e. that the owner of the property gave it away to avoid paying care fees. In many cases they don't bother, probably because of this and because they do not have the time or resources to pursue it.

 

Lots to think about but for anyone in that age group it is worth making some sort of plan because otherwise they are going to virtually lose the lot.

 

The problem is the Local Authorities can go back as far as they want, especially once they discover that you did ONCE have property.