Longcol Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I've had a few experiences which defy explanation, one of which seriously amazes me every time I contemplate it but these never, ever, lead me to consider any so-called "spiritual" involvement. Where had you been suppin' when that happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Well I suppose it all comes down to personal faith. I happen to believe we all have a soul, although I don't think I could adequately define what that is. I just know I have one... No you had it right the first time. You believe it, you do not know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Glancing at that survey, out of the sample size of 2036 people, it looks like it's roughly the same 30% of people saying they believe in spiritual forces, etc. It doesn't look like a majority to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Meanwhile the set of things the supposed spiritual force is responsible for gets smaller and smaller and smaller... Science has already answered many previously considered unanswerable questions. Basing your position on the current one is not likely to be successful strategy long term. Answered what? The post from Anna B was about the beginning- origins, pre Big Bang etc. That has not even closely been answered- and question may well be, will it ever? For what it is worth, in Chemistry, we have the Law of the conservation of mass where nothing can be created or destroyed. This is not a theory like evolution or relativity. This is a an immutable fact of our world. So for anyone to think that everything just popped in to existence by itself or 'natural laws' played a part, is not speaking in scientific terms. Where did the matter come from? I think it is cop out from atheists when they just say ' we don't know'. Not all theists just stop at 'god did it'. I know many who have studied sciences and looked at the bigger picture- using their knowledge of science and the absurdity that 'something cannot come from nothing' sets them on to a path to realize that a greater force is at work. Call this what you will- atheists name it 'mother nature'...some people call it God. P.S. I am not staying on this thread- done enough of them before- just making my one and only contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcoblog Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 When I used to buy them from Schrödinger's Fruit n' Veg, I couldn't tell whether they were fresh or rotten. Like this! In response to the O/P, you only need to look at this 'Blue dot' clip on the 'Voyager spacecraft' thread to see how small and insignificant we are as a race, on the scale of things. We're not even anywhere near the size of a flea on Schrodinger's cat (by billions of times!). We don't even know how big the cat is yet, let alone what it's thinking ... a new science entirely! From time immemorial, what we don't understand has been accredited to 'spiritual forces' ... man made gods to disguise/excuse our lack of understanding. As another poster has pointed out, the realm of supernatural deities becomes smaller as our understanding of how things work increases exponentially. Given time, I'm pretty confident that the 'unexplained' will become 'explained', not only in respect to 'gods', but to all things currently beyond our comprehension. We'll not only know the size of the cat and what it's thinking, but also, what it had for dinner and who it's friends are. Then of course, we need to know where the cat lives ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Well I suppose it all comes down to personal faith. I happen to believe we all have a soul, although I don't think I could adequately define what that is. I just know I have one... Faith just describes believing something despite a lack of, or even in the face of the evidence against. It's irrational and is born out of a fear of the unknown. You say you don't fear death, but that's (I suspect) exactly the reason for inventing the idea of the soul, because now you don't believe you'll die (despite all the evidence to the contrary). ---------- Post added 19-10-2013 at 09:47 ---------- Answered what? The post from Anna B was about the beginning- origins, pre Big Bang etc. That has not even closely been answered- and question may well be, will it ever? For what it is worth, in Chemistry, we have the Law of the conservation of mass where nothing can be created or destroyed. This is not a theory like evolution or relativity. This is a an immutable fact of our world. If you're any kind of scientist then you'll know that it's a theory just the same. No different to the theory of gravity. So for anyone to think that everything just popped in to existence by itself or 'natural laws' played a part, is not speaking in scientific terms. Where did the matter come from? I think it is cop out from atheists when they just say ' we don't know'. You think it's a cop out to admit ignorance? How bizarre, should we make something up then? Not all theists just stop at 'god did it'. I know many who have studied sciences and looked at the bigger picture- using their knowledge of science and the absurdity that 'something cannot come from nothing' sets them on to a path to realize that a greater force is at work. No, that's a cop out. All it should set them on the path to, is that we haven't explained it yet. Call this what you will- atheists name it 'mother nature'...some people call it God. P.S. I am not staying on this thread- done enough of them before- just making my one and only contribution. Post and run then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janie48 Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 No, that's a cop out. All it should set them on the path to, is that we haven't explained it yet. In the meantime while you await for the explanation try not to get too impatient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 I'm not, it took quite a while to figure out lots of things, but we got there, no reason we won't get there with the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryedo40 Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 At the end of the Victorian era, scientists honestly thought there was little else to discover, and what was left they would have licked in no time. If scientists really thought that - and no doubt some did - then they'd have pretty much packed things up back then and we wouldn't have the scientific advancements we have today. Think of the whole new world of quantum mechanics that's been opened up to scientists since then. The world is more diverse, complex and fascinating than we can possibly imagine. Far from getting smaller, we are only just beginning to realise how truly amazing the Universe is. I agree. But if it wasn't for science, we'd still be living in a small world: one where 'spiritual forces' were responsible for lightning, earthquakes, famines, and so on. Today we know better. And those ignorances of the past continue to diminish thanks to science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Well I suppose it all comes down to personal faith. I happen to believe we all have a soul, although I don't think I could adequately define what that is. Yes, but why do you believe that? I just know I have one... Like FJ said, you believe you have one. Belief and knowledge are not the same (although this distinction is often forgotten in theism) ---------- Post added 19-10-2013 at 11:34 ---------- Answered what? The post from Anna B was about the beginning- origins, pre Big Bang etc. That has not even closely been answered- and question may well be, will it ever? No, the question is - why jump to the irrational conclusion that there are spiritual forces (including gods) simply because we don't yet have a rational explanation? For what it is worth, in Chemistry, we have the Law of the conservation of mass where nothing can be created or destroyed. This is not a theory like evolution or relativity. This is a an immutable fact of our world. So for anyone to think that everything just popped in to existence by itself or 'natural laws' played a part, is not speaking in scientific terms. Where did the matter come from? I think it is cop out from atheists when they just say ' we don't know'. Not all theists just stop at 'god did it'. That doesn't tend to be the view of atheists though. Most would say 'we don't know yet' ...which is far from a cop-out I know many who have studied sciences and looked at the bigger picture- using their knowledge of science and the absurdity that 'something cannot come from nothing' sets them on to a path to realize that a greater force is at work. Call this what you will- atheists name it 'mother nature'...some people call it God. Atheists don't tend to view nature (or mother nature, as you put it) as a greater force (at least, not in the sense of a sentient or spiritual force). So you're trying to equate your God with an atheist view of nature, which just doesn't wash. P.S. I am not staying on this thread- done enough of them before- just making my one and only contribution. Oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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