ronthenekred Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Why blame the church,which cannot enforce the religious laws it decrees?The blame must lie with the legislature or some political body. You'll probably find that church and State are almost synonymous. Although Ireland seems to be making inroads into reform it's another example of state and church control/collusion, and that country borders our own. I think it would be naive to think the Catholic church in this and many other instances have no influence on daily state and legislative affairs. Jesus, as if a miscarriage isn't traumatic enough without being accused of killing your baby and being locked up! I don't think Jesus comes on this forum,so don't expect an answer?Blame his dad. Make yer mind up, it's either God or the state legislature, as God isn't likely to either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 So where does Catholicism specifically teach that miscarriage should be punished? If you could point me to a specific piece of doctrine released by the Vatican, then I might just believe you. Ah yes, I'd only be laying into them if they were Muslim. Thank you LeMaquis for demonstrating your own sheer stupidity, since you blatantly ignored the part of my post above where I said it was utterly barbaric and backwards. The issue clearly originates in the Neanderthal teachings of the Catholic Church about abortion. The quotes I published from the link were about abortion and miscarriage because that's what the article said. I didn't bring abortion into the issue. The article did that. The countries concerned are all strongly Catholic countries in the Americas which is why the case happened there. You said the policy was barbaric and backwards but you didn't put the blame where it belongs - on the Catholic Church. ---------- Post added 20-10-2013 at 08:00 ---------- Why blame the church,which cannot enforce the religious laws it decrees?The blame must lie with the legislature or some political body. The Church has a very strong grip on politics in those countries or do you think it's a coincidence that countries where the Catholic Church is strong tend to be more anti-abortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronthenekred Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 So where does Catholicism specifically teach that miscarriage should be punished? If you could point me to a specific piece of doctrine released by the Vatican, then I might just believe you. There is a major inconsistency in the Catholic teaching on miscarriages. If a miscarriage has a soul, then the Church should make every effort to baptise it - even if there is the remotest possibility of the sacrament being applied while the foetus is still alive. The Church has never made any attempt to baptise miscarriages; so there must be a certain insincerity in its teaching that a foetus has a soul to be saved. So, by default the Catholic church punishes the foetus and the mother. Dad gets off free and doesn't go to jail.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Abortion is not illegal in the UK. The 67 Abortion Act doesn't apply to Northern Ireland. Abortion there is very limited compared to on the British mainland. This is due to religious - and political - bigots on both the Catholic and Protestant sides. Again it's due to religion having a strong grip on politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenRivers Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 The issue clearly originates in the Neanderthal teachings of the Catholic Church about abortion. The quotes I published from the link were about abortion and miscarriage because that's what the article said. I didn't bring abortion into the issue. The article did that. The countries concerned are all strongly Catholic countries in the Americas which is why the case happened there. You said the policy was barbaric and backwards but you didn't put the blame where it belongs - on the Catholic Church. So you have been unable to prove that the Catholic Church says miscarriage should be punished. The Vatican didn't dictate what the laws should be in Latin America or how they're applied, stupid people did. Again feel free to prove me wrong if you can find anything anywhere in Catholic doctrine, or even in the Bible, that specifically says that miscarriage should be punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 The Vatican didn't dictate what the laws should be in Latin America or how they're applied, stupid people did. People who make laws in the countries mentioned in the article do so in line with Catholic ideology as decided by the Vatican. They could if they wanted choose not to enact and enforce such regressive laws. The Vatican if it wanted could change its values. To say that the religious conservatives in Latin America are not influenced by the Vatican is a total lie. You are getting close to the cliché about asking if the Pope is Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenRivers Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 People who make laws in the countries mentioned in the article do so in line with Catholic ideology as decided by the Vatican. In line with Catholic ideology? Are you claiming it is Catholic ideology to punish miscarriage? Proof please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 So you have been unable to prove that the Catholic Church says miscarriage should be punished. The Vatican didn't dictate what the laws should be in Latin America or how they're applied, stupid people did. Stupid people following a stupid religion. The origin of the law in question is the Catholic teachings, the application is down to the stupidity of the particular Catholics in power. Again feel free to prove me wrong if you can find anything anywhere in Catholic doctrine, or even in the Bible, that specifically says that miscarriage should be punished. Strawman, nobody ever made that claim. ---------- Post added 20-10-2013 at 09:42 ---------- In line with Catholic ideology? Are you claiming it is Catholic ideology to punish miscarriage? Proof please. It's Catholic ideology to not allow abortion (or even birth control or contraception). Which is all that has ever been claimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avidcameron Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Stupid people following a stupid religion. The origin of the law in question is the Catholic teachings, the application is down to the stupidity of the particular Catholics in power. Strawman, nobody ever made that claim. ---------- Post added 20-10-2013 at 09:42 ---------- It's Catholic ideology to not allow abortion (or even birth control or contraception). Which is all that has ever been claimed. I think it was Pope JP2 who declared that birth-control was incompatible with RC faith,but to suggest these people are stupid simply exposes your restricted vocabulary-inflexible might be a better term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Boy Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24532694 Some laws are so effing stupid. Why is this not common knowledge? Wrong. Just wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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