Jailed for Miscarrying a child

[SevenRivers]

Seven, if the Catholic church has policies against abortion & contraception - and the Catholic church, along with it followers, interfere with politics and law in attempts to make abortion and contraception illegal, then don't you think the Catholic church is responsible?

 

She didn't have an abortion though, she miscarried. If a state has jailed a mother that miscarried, that isn't at the behest of the Catholic Church. Catholicism may ban abortion, it can't ban death.

[Ryedo40]

She didn't have an abortion though, she miscarried. This is the whole point, Catholicism may ban abortion, it can't ban death.

 

And how do you establish whether she miscarried or intentionally sought to terminate(abort) the pregnancy. What if this women unintentionally tripped and miscarried as a result. That woman, because of the laws against abortion, is going to risk being imprisoned unless she can prove it wasn't intentional.

 

The ramifications of having laws against abortion are dangerous; they are going to criminalise no end of innocent women as a result. And that's all thanks to the Catholic church and other religious lobbies who seek to impose their ill-thought faith-based views on society.

[Plain Talker]

She didn't have an abortion though, she miscarried. If a state has jailed a mother that miscarried, that isn't at the behest of the Catholic Church. Catholicism may ban abortion, it can't ban death.

 

But even if this was an abortion (which it wasn't) it should be available, safe and legal for any woman who needed it. Women should not be forced to turn to backstreet butchers. They should have autonomy over their reproductive health.

[Cyclone]

I won't argue with you there.

 

 

 

No not a strawman, you can't dismiss it that easy without coming back without a better argument. It's been claimed that the jailing of a woman who miscarried is down to Catholicism.

And the mechanism has been explained, a law that is down to Catholicism, an application of that law by the state (by people who happen to be Catholic, but that's a bit irrelevant).

Nowhere does the Catholic Church teach that women who miscarry should be punished.

Nor has anyone made that claim.

It (the Catholic Church) may teach that abortion is wrong, but have they forced this particular country to enact the laws it has? Does it dictate how those laws are applied? Did the Church say to jail a woman who miscarried?

 

No it did not. It is an unintended consequence of it's stance on abortion, for which it is responsible.

[SevenRivers]

But even if this was an abortion (which it wasn't) it should be available, safe and legal for any woman who needed it. Women should not be forced to turn to backstreet butchers. They should have autonomy over their reproductive health.

 

Whether it should or shouldn't is another matter, but that's for them to decide as it's their country not ours.

 

---------- Post added 21-10-2013 at 09:23 ----------

 

And the mechanism has been explained, a law that is down to Catholicism, an application of that law by the state (by people who happen to be Catholic, but that's a bit irrelevant).

Nor has anyone made that claim.

 

No it did not. It is an unintended consequence of it's stance on abortion, for which it is responsible.

 

I accept a law that makes abortion illegal may be down to Catholic belief, but if they're jailing mothers who miscarry, and that isn't part of Catholic teaching, to me that sounds like a corrupt legal system. The Rule of Law generally means a burden of proof has to be obtained to prove somebody has broken the law, if they're jailing people without proof or bringing them before a jury, it's a poor legal system. Who knows what else people are being jailed for in that country, I bet this isn't the only questionable offense people are jailed for, I bet corruption is rife in general over there, so to suggest everything they do is down to some virtuous implementation of Catholic teaching is inaccurate at best.

[avidcameron]

But even if this was an abortion (which it wasn't) it should be available, safe and legal for any woman who needed it. Women should not be forced to turn to backstreet butchers. They should have autonomy over their reproductive health.

 

This is a case of cultural imperialism,where you feel entitled to stipulate how other countries should be organised.Although I agree with your sentiments I question your right to impose your beliefs on others,and the whole issue needs to be understood in the context of Catholic teaching.

[Plain Talker]

This is a case of cultural imperialism,where you feel entitled to stipulate how other countries should be organised.Although I agree with your sentiments I question your right to impose your beliefs on others,and the whole issue needs to be understood in the context of Catholic teaching.

 

It's not cultural imperialism at all.

 

I simply believe that abortion should be safe, legal and available. there's nothing imperial about that.

 

I understand, perfectly, that the catholic church would deny women the right to abort, even in the most extreme of cases. (look at the case of the young woman who died, recently, in Ireland, when she was very sick, and needed to terminate her pregnancy, and was not permitted to do so...)

 

The church, which is run by (supposedly celibate) males should have no right to dictate/ restrict a woman's right to autonomy over her reproductive health.

 

If a woman needs to have an abortion, then she should have the right to access that abortion legally, and safely.

[avidcameron]

It's not cultural imperialism at all.

 

I simply believe that abortion should be safe, legal and available. there's nothing imperial about that.

 

I understand, perfectly, that the catholic church would deny women the right to abort, even in the most extreme of cases. (look at the case of the young woman who died, recently, in Ireland, when she was very sick, and needed to terminate her pregnancy, and was not permitted to do so...)

 

The church, which is run by (supposedly celibate) males should have no right to dictate/ restrict a woman's right to autonomy over her reproductive health.

 

If a woman needs to have an abortion, then she should have the right to access that abortion legally, and safely.

 

 

You are right to express an opinion,the imperial bit is your wish to impose such a view.I do not think you have examined Catholic teaching and the context in which values are determined.

I do not know why you mention celibacy.

[Ryedo40]

This is a case of cultural imperialism,where you feel entitled to stipulate how other countries should be organised.

 

I don't get the point of this, unless you are saying he's no different to the Catholic Church. Although I do think his 'imperialistic' views are far more reasonable than what the catholic church has imposed on those countries.

[avidcameron]

I don't get the point of this, unless you are saying he's no different to the Catholic Church. Although I do think his 'imperialistic' views are far more reasonable than what the catholic church has imposed on those countries.

 

I tend to agree with your sympathetic view.