British muslims warned

[janie48]

Who did you blame for the terrorist atrocities which were committed on the UK mainland during the 70's, 80's and 90's?

I blamed nationalist Irish Republican murderers, but I don't think I would compere the cause of those atrocities in quite the same way as the reason for Islamic terrorist atrocities.

 

I wouldn't make any excuses for either, but the difference with IRA nationalists, is that though the majority when the IRA was formed had roots connected to the Catholic south, not all of them were Catholics, some were Protestant and many were Atheist Marxists.

[Hillpig]

I blamed nationalist Irish Republican murderers, but I don't think I would compere the cause of those atrocities in quite the same way as the reason for Islamic terrorist atrocities.

 

I wouldn't make any excuses for either, but the difference with IRA nationalists, is that though the majority when the IRA was formed had roots connected to the Catholic south, not all of them were Catholics, some were Protestant and many were Atheist Marxists.

 

The cause they fought for was a free Ireland, I did not agree with their tactics but there is no doubt that our part in their history was not good.

 

The Islamists are different, they seek to conquer, they want to impose their religion and their laws upon is.

 

Zamo is right, the cure must come from the supposed moderates within their society and religion. There is little sign of that happening.

[mikeye]

If the Muslim community had a sort of, "Not In Our Name" day, like organised against the Iraq war. If they marched and had banners proclaiming their opposition to terrorism then this would give a massive boost to their claim to be integrating.

 

Muslims suffer from very bad PR in relation to this and their frequent comments that they shouldn't have to show this opposition, because obviously they don't support extremist may be true, but a protest would provide evidence of this.

 

Muslim's would benefit from a Tommy Robinson type character, a strong person who puts his / her opinions before any personal interests.

 

Only then will the majority of people believe that their is widespread opposition to extremists.

 

Sometimes the majority has to make sacrifices because of the actions of the minority. That's just life, its tough. So lets see some real opposition.

[Peer Gynt]

Boyfriday has the right to choose to follow whatever religion he wishes, or none, and it's no-ones right except his to dictate which religion, or no religion. this applies to everyone.

 

He has the right to hold the belief that religion is mumbo jumbo. Just the same as my Hindu friends have the right to believe in the Hindu religion, my Jewish friends have the right to be Jews, my Christian friends have the right to be Christians, and my atheist friends have the right to disbelieve in a deity.

 

And the same with vegetarianism... I don't eat meat. I don't, however, deny others the right to eat and enjoy meat. I don't say "I don't eat meat, therefore you cannot eat meat either."

 

As always you've missed the point being made in my post to BF

 

---------- Post added 24-10-2013 at 16:01 ----------

 

the animal liberationists (veggies!) were/are quite vociferous about Huntingdon life sciences, if I recall correctly. I seem to remember a pipe bomb attack on the owners, or one of the scientists working there.

Yes but you haven't answered Zamo's post just as you didn't answer meni correctly.

 

---------- Post added 24-10-2013 at 16:03 ----------

 

If the Muslim community had a sort of, "Not In Our Name" day, like organised against the Iraq war. If they marched and had banners proclaiming their opposition to terrorism then this would give a massive boost to their claim to be integrating.

 

Muslims suffer from very bad PR in relation to this and their frequent comments that they shouldn't have to show this opposition, because obviously they don't support extremist may be true, but a protest would provide evidence of this.

 

Muslim's would benefit from a Tommy Robinson type character, a strong person who puts his / her opinions before any personal interests.

 

Only then will the majority of people believe that their is widespread opposition to extremists.

 

Sometimes the majority has to make sacrifices because of the actions of the minority. That's just life, its tough. So lets see some real opposition.

 

The Muslim community is deafening in its silence over the daily multi atrocities carried out by Muslim extremists.

 

---------- Post added 24-10-2013 at 16:06 ----------

 

The cause they fought for was a free Ireland, I did not agree with their tactics but there is no doubt that our part in their history was not good.

 

The Islamists are different, they seek to conquer, they want to impose their religion and their laws upon is.

 

Zamo is right, the cure must come from the supposed moderates within their society and religion. There is little sign of that happening.

 

There is no moderation in Islam to stray from the narrow path is blasphemy and the consequences that will surely follow.

 

---------- Post added 24-10-2013 at 16:13 ----------

 

as usual youre trying to muddy the waters, PTs point is most muslims DONT bomb others, and let people believe what they want

 

Can you tell us in the name of what religion the vast majority of terrorist/suicide bomb attacks take place on a daily basis, usually against innocent bystanders.

 

Judaism

Catholicism

Protestants

Jehovah witnesses.

Morons

Creationists

Buddhists

Witches

Islam

[boyfriday]

I blamed nationalist Irish Republican murderers, but I don't think I would compere the cause of those atrocities in quite the same way as the reason for Islamic terrorist atrocities.

 

I wouldn't make any excuses for either, but the difference with IRA nationalists, is that though the majority when the IRA was formed had roots connected to the Catholic south, not all of them were Catholics, some were Protestant and many were Atheist Marxists.

 

So you would have been critical of a Muslim thousands of miles away in Pakistan condemning the conflicts as purely sectarian violence?

 

---------- Post added 24-10-2013 at 16:20 ----------

 

Muslims suffer from very bad PR

Funnily enough I was going to post something similar, yes they do suffer from bad PR, they're also the victims of others who spin the PR wheel effectively against them.

[mikeye]

So you would have been critical of a Muslim thousands of miles away in Pakistan condemning the conflicts as purely sectarian violence?

 

---------- Post added 24-10-2013 at 16:20 ----------

 

Funnily enough I was going to post something similar, yes they do suffer from bad PR, they're also the victims of others who spin the PR wheel effectively against them.

 

Well the only way to counter this is to spin the plate in the opposite direction by taking some positive action to win public opinion...

 

Although, isn't this what Quilliam are doing? They have not had an easy ride trying to counter extremism.

[boyfriday]

Well the only way to counter this is to spin the plate in the opposite direction by taking some positive action to win public opinion...

 

Although, isn't this what Quilliam are doing? They have not had an easy ride trying to counter extremism.

 

..or the very effective anti Islam Spin Machine. After every atrocity committed by Muslims I check out the Muslim Council of Great Britain website, without exception they issue press releases condemning whatever the latest incident is..these are rarely if ever picked up by the mainstream media. You would have thought with the regular clamours from the non Muslim population for Muslim comment that these press releases would be headline news, but they never are, are they?

 

You mention the Quilliams. I've been watching and championing their work for at least 3 years, yet they only reached a national media platform because Tommy Robinson is aligning himself to them.

 

Muslims can't do anything to control what the media wants to say about them or when they say it.

[janie48]

So you would have been critical of a Muslim thousands of miles away in Pakistan condemning the conflicts as purely sectarian violence?.

I wouldn't be critical of him saying it, because that's how its viewed by so many, but when the minority extremists refer to it as a "holy war" as a reason that justifies involving not only two groups of Muslims, but non-Muslims too from so many other nations, I would suggest to him that he might need to re-examine his reasoning.

[Hillpig]

Well the only way to counter this is to spin the plate in the opposite direction by taking some positive action to win public opinion...

 

Although, isn't this what Quilliam are doing? They have not had an easy ride trying to counter extremism.

 

 

 

Quilliam seem to be perceived as a minority with the Muslim world. As they are clearly moderates this tends to indicate that the majority of Muslims must be supporters of extremism.

 

During a taxi ride earlier today I was chatting with the Muslim driver. He was a middle aged man who had been in the UK, he said, for over 20years.

 

He mentioned than Poppy day was coming round and stated that it was a con. He said, we ,the British, had started all wars. He had heard this in his Rotherham Mosque. He went on to say that he had learned we got dressed up as Germans and attacked Russia in 1941 just to get the Russians into the war.

 

That the prophet had stated that it was the duty of all Muslims to invade all Christian countries and if the population did not become Muslim they were to be killed.

 

Interesting that this man feels comfortable in telling me this, interesting that this is kind of thing being preached in local Mosques.

[mikeye]

..or the very effective anti Islam Spin Machine. After every atrocity committed by Muslims I check out the Muslim Council of Great Britain website, without exception they issue press releases condemning whatever the latest incident is..these are rarely if ever picked up by the mainstream media. You would have thought with the regular clamours from the non Muslim population for Muslim comment that these press releases would be headline news, but they never are, are they?

 

You mention the Quilliams. I've been watching and championing their work for at least 3 years, yet they only reached a national media platform because Tommy Robinson is aligning himself to them.

 

Muslims can't do anything to control what the media wants to say about them or when they say it.

 

I don't think the Muslim Council Of Britain represents ordinary Muslims. Leaders of organisations don't always have the support of the mainstream, whatever race or religion. Camerons always making statement on my behalf.

 

What I can't quite get my head around is that if Quilliam are looking for ways to combat extremism why do they get such a bad press? They seem to be attacked by ordinary Muslims for trying to resolve the issue.

 

Just read the comments on here by the Progressives and others for evidence of this. It's as if they'd prefer the status quo. I know they were not well known until Tommy Robinson was asked to join them but that just shows the lack of interest. TR can at least be congratulated for raising the profile of Quilliam. I know you said you've been championing them for years, problem is nobody listens to you, or me. It needs some high profile Muslims to show support.

 

---------- Post added 24-10-2013 at 17:06 ----------

 

Quilliam seem to be perceived as a minority with the Muslim world. As they are clearly moderates this tends to indicate that the majority of Muslims must be supporters of extremism.

 

During a taxi ride earlier today I was chatting with the Muslim driver. He was a middle aged man who had been in the UK, he said, for over 20years.

 

He mentioned than Poppy day was coming round and stated that it was a con. He said, we ,the British, had started all wars. He had heard this in his Rotherham Mosque. He went on to say that he had learned we got dressed up as Germans and attacked Russia in 1941 just to get the Russians into the war.

 

That the prophet had stated that it was the duty of all Muslims to invade all Christian countries and if the population did not become Muslim they were to be killed.

 

Interesting that this man feels comfortable in telling me this, interesting that this is kind of thing being preached in local Mosques.

 

Problem is, I feel that opinion is common. We all have anecdotes as evidence of this but there's no point mentioning it, it'll be ignored, and you'll be called a racist and liar.

 

This is why there should be no more Mosque building until the current ones are sorted.

 

You should have mentioned the Ottoman empire, they were hardly peace loving folk...