dutch Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Many of these girls wearing a veil are actually wearing a miniskirt underneath and have full makeup. When they get out they have a good time with their friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 How many Muslim women grow up without being indoctrinated into believing a God wants them to wear a veil, but choose to wear it anyway. How many have the right to say no, I will not wear the veil. . WE are all indoctrinated by our parents and surroundings its how we learn and grow, if you have sunday lunch its cos thats how youve learnt to live, its your tradition, im veggie, the missus is so we brought our kids up just as us, ones chosen to be veggie, ones chosen to eat meat, although we dont buy or cook meat as for choice, yet again watch the stacey dooley programme i posted, her friends CHOSE to wear the hijab, she said after school she went to college, thats when she CHOSE to start wearing it, and when stacey joined them wearing it walking down the street, she got abuse which shocked her, im sorry but its not about rights its about hate ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 11:11 ---------- Many of these girls wearing a veil are actually wearing a miniskirt underneath and have full makeup. When they get out they have a good time with their friends. youve been watching too much citizen khan lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillpig Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Don't you find that your normal daily encounters with Muslims provides perfectly adequate evidence? Frankly what's that got to do with anything? Ive regularly seen men walking around in superhero costumes and doing fairly sensational things on parliament buildings, but I don't believe Fathers For Justice represent me or dads generally..do you? ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 10:51 ---------- So why shouldn't she have the freedom to wear a bag on her head if she wants to? It seems your championing of female choice only applies to those freedoms you agree with-in other words it's no freedom at all. I have frequent encounters, usually very positive ones, with Muslim people, I fully agree that if a woman wants to wear a bag over her head she has a perfect right to. My issue is with the fascistic, intolerant rantings of the few and particularly the apathy and lack of courage of the so called majority in failing to confront them. The Muslims I have most contact with tend to come from the Pakistani diaspora, from the time they arrived here they have, as a group, formed their own ghettoes, they have failed, or never attempted, to integrate themselves into our society. Even third and fourth generation regard Pakistan as "home". With notable exceptions many have failed to avail themselves of educational opportunities, women have chosen or been forced to remain chattels. Compared to other immigrant groups notably, Hindu, West Indian have prospered and assimilated well. The failure of the Pakistanis to break out of their self imposed internal exile has caused disaffection with the rest of British society. Increased terrorist activity emanating from North Africa, Pakistan and Somalia has been used by the disaffected to justify their ongoing isolation and make it more militant and fundamental. The increased acceptance by this country of immigration and the abuse of our asylum laws has allowed this section of the population to ally itself with similarly minded Somali and North African elements. There is an opportunity for change, if the people I fear, wish to prove me wrong, I challenge them to become sensitive to others beliefs and concerns. A moratorium on the building of Mosques, a regular and sustained refusal to accept militant and fundamentalist teaching. A respect and inclusion within British history. A voluntary rejection of the hijab whilst resident in or visiting in Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 I have frequent encounters, usually very positive ones, with Muslim people, I fully agree that if a woman wants to wear a bag over her head she has a perfect right to. My issue is with the fascistic, intolerant rantings of the few and particularly the apathy and lack of courage of the so called majority in failing to confront them. The Muslims I have most contact with tend to come from the Pakistani diaspora, from the time they arrived here they have, as a group, formed their own ghettoes, they have failed, or never attempted, to integrate themselves into our society. Even third and fourth generation regard Pakistan as "home". With notable exceptions many have failed to avail themselves of educational opportunities, women have chosen or been forced to remain chattels. Compared to other immigrant groups notably, Hindu, West Indian have prospered and assimilated well. The failure of the Pakistanis to break out of their self imposed internal exile has caused disaffection with the rest of British society. Increased terrorist activity emanating from North Africa, Pakistan and Somalia has been used by the disaffected to justify their ongoing isolation and make it more militant and fundamental. The increased acceptance by this country of immigration and the abuse of our asylum laws has allowed this section of the population to ally itself with similarly minded Somali and North African elements. There is an opportunity for change, if the people I fear, wish to prove me wrong, I challenge them to become sensitive to others beliefs and concerns. A moratorium on the building of Mosques, a regular and sustained refusal to accept militant and fundamentalist teaching. A respect and inclusion within British history. A voluntary rejection of the hijab whilst resident in or visiting in Britain. you started off so well with the first 1 and a half lines lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillpig Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 you started off so well with the first 1 and a half lines lol I know, it got better after that, I am on a roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I have frequent encounters, usually very positive ones, with Muslim people, I fully agree that if a woman wants to wear a bag over her head she has a perfect right to. My issue is with the fascistic, intolerant rantings of the few and particularly the apathy and lack of courage of the so called majority in failing to confront them. Ah ok, we could be forgiven for believing you were including in the 'fascistic, intolerant' women who choose to wear the burka. The Muslims I have most contact with tend to come from the Pakistani diaspora, from the time they arrived here they have, as a group, formed their own ghettoes, they have failed, or never attempted, to integrate themselves into our society. Even third and fourth generation regard Pakistan as "home". Obvously I can't challenge your experience of muslims, but it doesn't match mine. Incidentally, are the Pakistanis you have contact with all members of the 'fascistic, intolerant' community? With notable exceptions many have failed to avail themselves of educational opportunities, women have chosen or been forced to remain chattels. Compared to other immigrant groups notably, Hindu, West Indian have prospered and assimilated well. The failure of the Pakistanis to break out of their self imposed internal exile has caused disaffection with the rest of British society. Believe me, it's taken a very long time for West Indians to have prospered and assimilated well. Increased terrorist activity emanating from North Africa, Pakistan and Somalia has been used by the disaffected to justify their ongoing isolation and make it more militant and fundamental. The increased acceptance by this country of immigration and the abuse of our asylum laws has allowed this section of the population to ally itself with similarly minded Somali and North African elements. Is this behaviour typical of the Pakistanis mentioned previously? There is an opportunity for change, if the people I fear, wish to prove me wrong, I challenge them to become sensitive to others beliefs and concerns. You are aware compromise is a two way street? A moratorium on the building of Mosques, Could you clarify how that will help community relations? Provided I'm not required to go in them Ive no real interest in whether they're built or not. a regular and sustained refusal to accept militant and fundamentalist teaching. How would such refusal manifest itself? I don't know any Muslims who don't denounce it when asked for an opinion. A respect and inclusion within British history. NOt quite sure what you mean there, but you do know many, many thousands of Muslims died fighting for Britain during WWI and WWII..I'm guessing most of their detractors don't know this or want to recognise it. A voluntary rejection of the hijab whilst resident in or visiting in Britain.Bah..there goes those that freedom again, only managed 5 paragraphs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeye Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 something that is required by a imaginary God. This is the crux of the matter.. Its all made up. Lets imagine there is one. He must be fairly bright? He created the universe and all its wonders. He created the human brain, fairly complicated... the trees.. the stars... the oceans... the moons... every thing... So what does he instruct his representative on earth to do. Allah instructs his Prophet to marry a six year old and have sex with her when she's nine. Or in relation to Christianity, God himself impregnated a 13 year old. Could both be arrested for historical child abuse, I suppose they could in theory. There is the argument that it was a different era, things were different then. But, er hello, God created the universe... wasn't he aware that both were physically and mentally too young to engage in sex or carry a child. He knows everything, right? Religion is the epitome of stupidity... not to mention evil.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 WE are all indoctrinated by our parents and surroundings its how we learn and grow, if you have sunday lunch its cos thats how youve learnt to live, its your tradition, im veggie, the missus is so we brought our kids up just as us, ones chosen to be veggie, ones chosen to eat meat, although we dont buy or cook meat as for choice, yet again watch the stacey dooley programme i posted, her friends CHOSE to wear the hijab, she said after school she went to college, thats when she CHOSE to start wearing it, and when stacey joined them wearing it walking down the street, she got abuse which shocked her, im sorry but its not about rights its about hate ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 11:11 ---------- youve been watching too much citizen khan lol No we are not, my parents are church going Christians, I am not, I'm an atheist. They eat Sunday lunch at the table, I don't, the list is endless because they allowed me to choose my own path in life and didn't force any of their beliefs on to me. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 12:59 ---------- This is the crux of the matter.. Its all made up. Lets imagine there is one. He must be fairly bright? He created the universe and all its wonders. He created the human brain, fairly complicated... the trees.. the stars... the oceans... the moons... every thing... So what does he instruct his representative on earth to do. Allah instructs his Prophet to marry a six year old and have sex with her when she's nine. Or in relation to Christianity, God himself impregnated a 13 year old. Could both be arrested for historical child abuse, I suppose they could in theory. There is the argument that it was a different era, things were different then. But, er hello, God created the universe... wasn't he aware that both were physically and mentally too young to engage in sex or carry a child. He knows everything, right? Religion is the epitome of stupidity... not to mention evil.. God even would have given women a face and then apparently tells them to cover it up. How bizarre is that, does God thing that a women's face is a mistake that needs covering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeye Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 No we are not, my parents are church going Christians, I am not, I'm an atheist. They eat Sunday lunch at the table, I don't, the list is endless because they allowed me to choose my own path in life and didn't force any of their beliefs on to me. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 12:59 ---------- God even would have given women a face and then apparently tells them to cover it up. How bizarre is that, does God thing that a women's face is a mistake that needs covering. But yet he lets us see porn, people murdered and kids starving... not very good that is it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 So, to be clear, you do not think it is the responsibility of the Muslim community (ordinary, decent, peaceful Muslims) to tackle Islamic extremism? Whilst Plain Talker is busy would anyone else care to answer my question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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