British muslims warned

[boyfriday]

You are aware of course that Gurkhas (with a capital letter and spelled correctly) are not British citizens.

 

Indeed I am and pointed this out to the poster who introduced them to the discussion.

 

Pretty ironic that you quote a group of foreign soldiers who have been discriminated against.

[Zamo]

I did say 'rightly or wrongly', if you read my post and the perception of racism exists in establishments like the armed forces, within ethnic minority groups.

 

But is it British racism that stops them joining or racism from their own community/faith/religion?

 

In the article by the BBC that I linked to previously they interview several Muslim soldiers. Here they say about being Muslim in the British army:

 

He said his fellow soldiers had joked with him about being Muslim, but it was not a real issue.

 

"You're seen as one of the blokes. You mingle with everyone, you're all the same people, doing the same job, so why should you be treated any differently?

 

"At some points you're always going to expect some kind of banter but it's nothing you should be downhearted by, because you're going to get it either way, be you any faith, any colour, fat, thin, small, tall, it's all the same really.

 

"So me being Muslim, a bit darker than everyone else and a bit hairier, its no big deal at all."

 

Any he is what they say about the reaction they get from their own community:

 

Muslims in the military have faced criticism from members of their own communities in the UK, who are against what they see as taking up arms against fellow Muslims in conflicts such as Afghanistan and previously Iraq.

 

 

 

Zeeshan Hashmi was one of the first British Muslim servicemen to be deployed to Afghanistan, in 2002 and was in the Intelligence Corps for five years.

 

His brother L/Cpl Jabron Hashmi also served in the Army, but was killed in 2006, becoming the first British Muslim soldier to die in Afghanistan.

 

Although there was an outpouring of sympathy from his local community, there was criticism too.

 

"There were certain remarks put on the internet, on a given website, certain people see my brother as a traitor because of his role as a soldier, because of his role in the armed forces, in Afghanistan," said Zeeshan Hashmi.

 

Being a Muslim in the British Armed Forces is not without its risks.

 

Aside from the obvious dangers all troops deployed in Afghanistan face, such as roadside bombs and suicide attacks, on their return to the UK some Muslim soldiers have experienced threats from extremists within their own community.

 

A Birmingham man was convicted in 2008 for his involvement in a plot to kidnap and behead a British Muslim soldier.

 

It appears racism is a reason Muslims do not join the British armed forces and are many times more likely to want to joined an armed struggle for an extremist Islamic cause. It is racism within the Muslim community that is out of control and it is very much in their hands to do something about it.

[angos]

I did say 'rightly or wrongly', if you read my post and the perception of racism exists in establishments like the armed forces, within ethnic minority groups.

Which group of people perceive the Armed forces to be racists, is it the group that use racism as an excuse for everything they don't like.

 

 

You weren't aware of the high publicity campaign Joanna Lumley mounted on behalf of the gurkas

Yes and again in what way were they being discriminated against, which group of non British members of the armed forces where given better treatment.

[taibashah]

i think this is all rubbish because i think when Muslims come in to the British country then have the aim for study and earning the money then how they give the attention on other activities

[melthebell]

i think this is all rubbish because i think when Muslims come in to the British country then have the aim for study and earning the money then how they give the attention on other activities

weve had british muslims in this country for quite a while now

[Zamo]

 

I don't disagree, but was careful to use the word 'perceived' but by the same token if you were a Muslim and read some of the threads on here alone would you want to work with people who shared those views about their faith? C'mon Zamo, it's a no brainer!

 

There is considerably more tolerance on the non-Muslim side. The door is open to integrate but they don't want to come through.

 

Im ignoring it because Muslims in the armed services and Muslims in terror camps is statistically insignificant, I think we agreed on 0.1% for one and 0.2% for the other. When 5% start vanishing to training camps and those in the armed services remain the same, I'll happily agree with your point.

 

No, it is 0.1% going off to Islamic terror camps and 0.02% joining the British army. That is a ratio of 5:1 and it is shocking.

 

If 5% (approximately 150,000) start going to terror camps then the security services will not be able to cope, the terror attacks will become regular and the Islamist will get what they want... a violent backlash against the Muslim community that will see young Muslim men flocking to the extremist cause.

 

1% is more likely to be the tipping point but we are both guessing. The point is why wait until a risk becomes an issue, especially when the consequences would be so dire? We need to manage the risk and that first means acknowledging the problem.

 

Well they're integrating far more now than they did in my day, my children have Muslim friends at work and at college, to them it's nothing remarkable, whereas it would have been to me.

 

Some have integrated and others have gone the other way. The 5:1 ratio indcates not enough movement in the right direction.

[boyfriday]

There is considerably more tolerance on the non-Muslim side. The door is open to integrate but they don't want to come through.

Do you follow the Muslim threads on this forum?

 

No, it is 0.1% going off to Islamic terror camps and 0.02% joining the British army. That is a ratio of 5:1 and it is shocking.

Nonetheless it's statistically fairly insignificant.

If 5% (approximately 150,000) start going to terror camps then the security services will not be able to cope, the terror attacks will become regular and the Islamist will get what they want... a violent backlash against the Muslim community that will see young Muslim men flocking to the extremist cause.

Just because I quoted that figure didn't mean it was an eventuality I'd be celebrating, quite the opposite as I said.

1% is more likely to be the tipping point but we are both guessing.

 

The point is why wait until a risk becomes an issue, especially when the consequences would be so dire? We need to manage the risk and that first means acknowledging the problem.

You could apply that kind of logic to all kinds of macro-social problems. Besides which the risk is being managed, very actively by our security services, I haven't for one minute been suggesting we should lie back and do nothing.

 

Some have integrated and others have gone the other way. The 5:1 ratio indcates not enough movement in the right direction.

If you believe the 5:1 (assuming the figures are correct) means something then you could do your bit by challenging the Islamophobes on this forum when they rear their heads and show Muslims you mean what you say- the bit about the door being open to integrate-you have to put the drawbridge across the moat first.

[Glamrocker]

Do you follow the Muslim threads on this forum?

 

Nonetheless it's statistically fairly insignificant.

Just because I quoted that figure didn't mean it was an eventuality I'd be celebrating, quite the opposite as I said.

You could apply that kind of logic to all kinds of macro-social problems. Besides which the risk is being managed, very actively by our security services, I haven't for one minute been suggesting we should lie back and do nothing.

 

If you believe the 5:1 (assuming the figures are correct) means something then you could do your bit by challenging the Islamophobes on this forum when they rear their heads and show Muslims you mean what you say- the bit about the door being open to integrate-you have to put the drawbridge across the moat first.

And people have to want to cross it,where have you been, Muslims dont want to integrate because their book tells them not to.

[wellyman]

And people have to want to cross it,where have you been, Muslims dont want to integrate because their book tells them not to.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Correct and I don't need someone who is a self appointed excuse maker for them telling me otherwise because that won't change reality.

[boyfriday]

And people have to want to cross it,where have you been, Muslims dont want to integrate because their book tells them not to.

:thumbsup:

 

Correct and I don't need someone who is a self appointed excuse maker for them telling me otherwise because that won't change reality.

 

Excuses aren't required, the evidence is staring you in the face, Muslims integrate with me, they integrate with my children, friends, family..in fact everyone I know.

 

Your crass statement says much more about you than it does them.

 

Should I be making excuses for you?