ukdobby Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Said that this morning Dobby, it would be fantastic if people's jobs are safe, but the union have capitulated & worked a "powder" on it's members. The Unite union should hang it's head in shame, one minute they won't budge & now it's we'll accept lower pensions, wage freeze & they've thrown in a no strike guarantee. The members will be over the moon if jobs are saved, but personally i think it's the break INEOS were after & the union just gave it them on a plate; think this could really spell the death knell for unions. Now management know anywhere if they get a strike, just sack the workforce & bring in new if needed, god help the working man & woman. Unions have outlived their use,remember us going on strike in the 70s because management wanted 30 redundant and only offered 3% payrise,after 8 week we went back with 50 redundant and 2% payrise,what a victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bypassblade Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 [quote=geared;10119589 We have plenty of laws protecting the worker now so it's really not that bad. The Unions were instrumental in getting them put in place making our country a very safe place for people to work. However the Unions had delusions of grandeur, and now seem more interested in playing politics than looking after the interests of people. Hopefully people will walk away form these self-interested, corrupt morons and look for something better. I understand what you mean geared but management will do what they will, and sadly Unite has let it's members down very badly at the plant. There is one big loser out of all this fiasco and that is Unite, they have lost all credibility (what bit they had); I never thought the day would come when I'd say this but I do now wonder if unions are an outdated commodity, as Unite have proven they are as much use "as an ashtray on a motorbike", also like PCS who's Leaders like to talk big but are very, very lacking in the testicular department Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Said that this morning Dobby, it would be fantastic if people's jobs are safe, but the union have capitulated & worked a "powder" on it's members. The Unite union should hang it's head in shame, one minute they won't budge & now it's we'll accept lower pensions, wage freeze & they've thrown in a no strike guarantee. The members will be over the moon if jobs are saved, but personally i think it's the break INEOS were after & the union just gave it them on a plate; think this could really spell the death knell for unions. Now management know anywhere if they get a strike, just sack the workforce & bring in new if needed, god help the working man & woman. You cannot sack the workforce and make them redundant and then re-employ other people. If you do then the position was hardly redundant now was it? Unite wanted to fight an ideological battle from the 1970's. They got their head handed to them on a plate because the world has moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy lady Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 You cannot sack the workforce and make them redundant and then re-employ other people. If you do then the position was hardly redundant now was it? Unite wanted to fight an ideological battle from the 1970's. They got their head handed to them on a plate because the world has moved on. You cannot sack a workforce and make them redundant. But you can do one or the other. In effect INEOS is just a venture capital holding company for various independent businesses. So if things had gone differently they could have closed Grangemouth, sacked the workforce for frustration of contract before selling the business to another new company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I never thought the day would come when I'd say this but I do now wonder if unions are an outdated commodity, as Unite have proven they are as much use "as an ashtray on a motorbike", also like PCS who's Leaders like to talk big but are very, very lacking in the testicular department I think there is and will always be a place/need for a union. But it should be soley for looking after the interested of the workers. The self-involved, politically interested, socialist shambles that we have at the moment are clearly unfit for purpose and have shown to be the opposite of what is required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxy lady Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I think there is and will always be a place/need for a union. But it should be soley for looking after the interested of the workers. The self-involved, politically interested, socialist shambles that we have at the moment are clearly unfit for purpose and have shown to be the opposite of what is required. I'm sure that when a few UNITE members are at the pub supping a pint tonight they will reflect on what Stevie Deans actually did for them. The row over pensions had been ongoing for 5 years. What caused this dispute was Stevie Deans being suspended by the Labour Party over the candidate selection in Falkirk. The company were unhappy about him working for the Labour Party when he should be working at the refinery who paid his wages. The company suspended him and he called the men out on strike. The refinery was shut down in anticipation of the strike (which took 5 days) and management decided not to restart production again if another dispute was to arise. So in effect all the loss of pension, pay, redundancies, no strike clauses is over a union official who was not pulling his weight at Grangemouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geared Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Yep I agree it's completely disgusting the way UNITE acted. To put over 1000 jobs on the line because of one man who wanted to play politics???? It boggles the mind, it really does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bypassblade Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I think there is and will always be a place/need for a union. But it should be soley for looking after the interested of the workers. The self-involved, politically interested, socialist shambles that we have at the moment are clearly unfit for purpose and have shown to be the opposite of what is required. True, but I wish you'd added my sentence where I also said I thought I'd never write this, I'm so disappointed by the events at Grangemouth. It has done nothing to promote unions & put them in a much worse light, and I've been a union member all my working life. As geared says all because one man wanted to play politics, like a lot of TU leaders they see leading a union as a springboard to a political career (sadly mistaken). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 The working man has had to fight every step of the way to improve his pay and conditions. Nobody has ever given him anything. Unions were formed because there was a need to organise in order to fight. I cannot believe that any working man in England would be glad that the Unions have lost in this case. It has provided a blueprint for any other avaricious, greedy employer who wants to treat his workforce - the men who make him his profits- with utter contempt. Just watch how this unfolds. Thatcher defeated the miners in the eighties, and was then able to take a hatchet to manufacturing jobs in the north of England. Once again the Unions have been defeated, now nobody is safe. Watch how your pay and conditions diminish as you race to the bottom..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukdobby Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 The working man has had to fight every step of the way to improve his pay and conditions. Nobody has ever given him anything. Unions were formed because there was a need to organise in order to fight. I cannot believe that any working man in England would be glad that the Unions have lost in this case. It has provided a blueprint for any other avaricious, greedy employer who wants to treat his workforce - the men who make him his profits- with utter contempt. Just watch how this unfolds. Thatcher defeated the miners in the eighties, and was then able to take a hatchet to manufacturing jobs in the north of England. Once again the Unions have been defeated, now nobody is safe. Watch how your pay and conditions diminish as you race to the bottom..... But the company was flushing big money every month,private firms cannot keeo going losing money,the wages was twice the average,I think its a no brainer what would happen. The unions did more for the working man than anything did but that was before the 60s and 70s,it then got a bee in its bonnet and thought it ran the country under labour,large wage rises and inflation then did a lot to kill British manufacturing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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