Peer Gynt Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 So you expect him to look up the evidence you keep quoting, but also expect him to provide evidence for his quotes. And you probably don't think you're a massive hypocrite either.. I've proven my point several times now so how about someone showing us where other than medicinal purpose cannabis is good for your health. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 16:29 ---------- Try explaining how you think it supports your opinion on prohibition. I've shown why cannabis is bad for general use, neither you or any of the other pro druggies have shown otherwise ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 16:32 ---------- No, we've tried that. Is that the royal we've or are you making out that you're some high up official speaking from authority? Loopy::hihi: PS keep pooping the pills. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 16:35 ---------- plenty of people also enjoy a joint or whatever as an addition to enjoy life, not TO enjoy life the trouble is when you push it beyond moderation, Like George Michael just like anything, it becomes a problem you dont just become addicted after one joint you know Who said you did, the reality is that it as with most drugs it leads to more than one as in the example above and then what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Sleeps Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 The George Michael argument. Bassman is back. Keeping it low. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 16:46 ---------- PS keep pooping the pills. I think you're putting them in the wrong end, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hots on Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 So, it reduces crime (primarily petty theft and mugging), How's that then, do they receive it for free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 You won't convince the druggie fans on here. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 13:55 ---------- Show us then. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 13:56 ---------- Why don't you look it up for yourself then you won't be able to ridicule it. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 13:57 ---------- Too idle to look it up for yourself are you. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 13:59 ---------- Halibut never contributes to any topic, Halibut just snipes. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 14:01 ---------- And that is another good point, children have died through spaced out parents leaving drugs around. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 14:02 ---------- So you'd like another danger let loose on the streets would you? Yes, I'm quite shocked at the amount of druggies using SF, I'm beginning to understand why so many of them are paranoid. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 18:31 ---------- i think thats the problem, youre so miserable in life cos you dont have whats termed "fun" some people like a drink to "enjoy life" some people are given anti depressents by their dr to "enjoy life" or not even to enjoy, to get by in life are they "junkies" too? That's so sad, I feel for anyone that needs to do drugs to enjoy life, you have my deepest sympathies. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 18:35 ---------- So you expect him to look up the evidence you keep quoting, but also expect him to provide evidence for his quotes. And you probably don't think you're a massive hypocrite either. And then to top it all, you accuse anyone who would prefer to see evidence lead policy of being a druggie, not remotely true and clearly the desperation of someone who's argument has been destroyed. ---------- Post added 25-10-2013 at 15:34 ---------- No, it really didn't. It quite clearly made the case that legalisation was the best route forwards. No, we've tried that and it's failed, we need legalisation and regulation. No, it can't. Prohibition has been failing for 50 years and there is no indication that it can ever work. Fags and alcohol are legal and there are many crimes associated with them both, legalising it isn't the answer because it will increase the amount of users, encouraging people to live life without drugs is the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Fags and alcohol are legal and there are many crimes associated with them both, legalising it isn't the answer because it will increase the amount of users, encouraging people to live life without drugs is the answer. That isn't an answer. It's part of an answer, but banging people up for drug offences isn't encouraging, it is brutalising. When alcohol was illegal, there was much more crime associated with it. Alcohol related murder became common because of the amount of money involved. Even back then, the people for whom the damage was most keenly felt, the mothers of the victims, campaigned vigorously to end prohibition. Even then they could see the damage that prohibition did. Over the past decade people have woken up to the wasted billions that have increased drug harms, increased the number of users, made a generation of criminals astoundingly wealthy and criminalised the young and the black people of Britain. And they're beginning to voice their opinion on the subject. Not us, here on this thread, but luminaries, thinkers, politicians and policemen. The hangem and flogem constituency is slowly shrinking away, shrivelling up behind windblown copies of yesterday's Daily Telegraph. In the future drug policy will balance fact, harm reduction and personal liberty rather than this slurry of authoritarianism, fear, misinformation, corruption and ignorance. I'm looking forward to it, but it's going to take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 That isn't an answer. It's part of an answer, but banging people up for drug offences isn't encouraging, it is brutalising. When alcohol was illegal, there was much more crime associated with it. Alcohol related murder became common because of the amount of money involved. Even back then, the people for whom the damage was most keenly felt, the mothers of the victims, campaigned vigorously to end prohibition. Even then they could see the damage that prohibition did. Over the past decade people have woken up to the wasted billions that have increased drug harms, increased the number of users, made a generation of criminals astoundingly wealthy and criminalised the young and the black people of Britain. And they're beginning to voice their opinion on the subject. Not us, here on this thread, but luminaries, thinkers, politicians and policemen. The hangem and flogem constituency is slowly shrinking away, shrivelling up behind windblown copies of yesterday's Daily Telegraph. In the future drug policy will balance fact, harm reduction and personal liberty rather than this slurry of authoritarianism, fear, misinformation, corruption and ignorance. I'm looking forward to it, but it's going to take time. Yep and that was a completely different time, there is no reason to believe what happened then, would happen know. All the evidence points to increased use if it is made legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 … … … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RootsBooster Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Yep and that was a completely different time, there is no reason to believe what happened then, would happen know. All the evidence points to increased use if it is made legal. Mr.Smith/Maxmaximus/Angos, can you provide links for the articles you've been talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 More copy and paste for you to read. David Mineta is Deputy Director for Demand Reduction at the Office of National Drug Control Policy. The argument that drug decriminalization, or legalization, will solve the budget crisis, reduce prison overcrowding and cripple drug cartels is simply not supported by evidence. In fact, the benefits of keeping marijuana and other illicit drugs illegal clearly outweigh the negative and predictable consequences of legitimizing these substances. Our long experience with two legal substances, alcohol and tobacco, demonstrates that legalization increases society’s acceptance, availability, use, and associated costs. Alcohol and tobacco cause hundreds of thousands more deaths per year than all illegal drugs combined, in part because their use is more widespread. Alcohol and tobacco are currently used by 51.6 percent and 28.4 percent, respectively, of the population aged 12 and older; while use of marijuana, the most popular illicit drug, hovers around six percent. Marijuana today is less accepted and less widely used among youth than alcohol or tobacco—in no small part because it is illegal.1 ............................................................................................................ Neil McKeganey Centre for Drug Misuse Research The case for legalising drugs is often made on the basis of the claimed failure of current drug laws. The fact that illegal drugs are widely available in most of our cities is taken as the strongest case for why they should be legalised. But within the UK less than one percent of the adult population has used heroin and little more than double that have used cocaine. The idea that drug use is omnipresent is a misrepresentation of a reality in which the most harmful drugs are actually used by only a tiny fraction of the population. Those who favour legalisation often recommend that the government should develop a regulated market in drug supply, thereby both seizing control from the criminals and securing much needed tax revenue. Claims for both outcomes are unconvincing. The experience of our existing regulated tobacco and alcohol markets show that the government would be quite unable to regulate a drug market. Both tobacco and alcohol are readily available, purchased and consumed by those under the age of sixteen. If the government were to take on the regulated supply of heroin and cocaine, we can expect these drugs also to become widely available to young people. The prediction of a tax windfall is equally questionable. If the government were to levy a tax on heroin and cocaine, thereby inflating their price, it would simply find itself in a bidding war with the current illegal drug suppliers as to who could sell their drugs more cheaply and the hoped-for tax income would evaporate like morning mist. But perhaps the strongest argument against legalisation is the possibility that it would lead to much wider drug use. Transform recently undertook an analysis of what a regulated drug market might look like and how much money it might save the government. Their report acknowledged that they could not predict how much drug use could grow under legalisation although their worst case scenario was a 100% increase in the current level. In the case of heroin that would mean an increase from under 1% to under 2%. History suggests that that is very far from a worst case scenario. In China at the time of the opium wars it was estimated that 10% of the population was addicted to opium. What would the UK look like if instead of the current estimate of around 330,000 heroin addicts there were three million? The supporters of legalisation will claim that heroin use could simply not increase to that degree and that most of those who want to use it are already doing so. But that is to assume that if the drug were legal there would be few others who would want to use it who are currently deterred by the risk of prosecution. The fact is that heroin is a lot more pleasant to use in the early stages that alcohol or tobacco and infinitely more additive than either of these two drugs. In time under a legalised regime we could see a steady increase in the numbers of heroin users and addicts. For some people, making drugs illegal seems like an unwanted intrusion into personal freedom. Drug use though is not a victimless crime, even when it may seem so to the drug user. In the UK some 400,000 children are being brought up in homes with addict parents. Legalisation of illegal drugs would not help those children; it would simply mean that their addicted parents now had a legal supplier to turn to. Our drug laws are not perfect. They have unwanted and unintended consequences. They can make those who are prepared to take the risks of selling drugs very rich. But legalisation is no more the answer to that problem than removing household locks is the answer to domestic burglary. Our drug laws, like our laws in general, express the vision of the kind of society we wish to live within. I cannot see how that vision is improved by legalising all forms of drug use. ............................................................................................................ Kevin Sabet Doctorate from the University of Oxford, in social policy Former adviser on drugs policy in the Clinton, Bush and Obama Administrations Being unhappy with the drug abuse in society is no reason to legalise drugs. In fact, the best evidence we have shows that legalisation would make a bad drug problem much worse - by increasing addiction, normalising use among kids, and relegating its sale to profit-hungry corporations or governments with every incentive to increase addiction to advance their bottom line. Legalisation is a very sloppy way to address the unintended consequences of current policy. First, we know that legalisation would significantly cheapen the price of cocaine, cannabis, and heroin, making them more accessible and therefore increasing addiction. Additionally, allowing drugs to be sold on the open market implies we would allow the sale of highly dangerous drugs such as crack and methamphetamine by multinational conglomerates. Big Tobacco would have nothing on Big Meth. Second, it is unclear that a major attraction of legalisation - the supposed reduction of the violent, underground market - would materialise. As governments put restrictions like age limits on legal drugs, the illicit economy will be happy to step in to fill the gap. We know now that at least 22% of the UK domestic tobacco market consists of black market illegal cigarettes. Yes, mass incarceration is a bad thing. And the developing world is being torn apart by the UK's appetite for drugs. But rather than legalise - which would increase crime and potentially increase incarceration rates - we should invest more in strategies such as drug treatment, specialised drug treatment courts, better drug prevention, smart enforcement, and international partnerships that promote alternative development. The UK is moving in the right direction. By expanding treatment and recovery services over the past decade, drug use has fallen almost 15% between 2005 and 2011. But we still have more work to do. ......................................................................................................................... Many drug-policy experts, including at the National Office of Drug Control Policy, believe that a significant rise in marijuana use among youth is a direct result of legalization efforts. In a major study published in the journal Drug and Alcohol Dependence, Columbia University researchers found that states that legalized marijuana for medical purposes have significantly higher rates — almost twice as high — of marijuana use, abuse and dependence than states without such laws. Marijuana smoke contains at least 50 percent more cancer-causing agents than tobacco smoke, according to the Office of National Drug Control Policy. Academic research has shown that chronic marijuana use leads to impaired learning, short-term memory and information-processing deficits and delayed emotional development. For youth, marijuana use has been shown to permanently impair brain development. Learning skills such as problem-solving, concentration, motivation and memory are negatively affected. 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Chris_Sleeps Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 More copy and paste for you to read. A source, if you'd do us the honour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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