Why ban smoking drugs IF..

[ronthenekred]

If the law at the time said so ..yes..I didnt write the laws,Iv broken a few myself but I knew as far as the law was concerned I was in the wrong and if I got caught I accepted the consequences whether I thought the law was wrong was immaterial to the outcome.

 

Well as long as you're prepared to tar yourself as scum I don't see any hypocrisy in your personal reasoning...but you are saying you're scum I take it?

[Bypassblade]

I'll admit I've only read last 2 pages of comments so someone may have raised this, apologies if they have. All the people that are advocating making weed legal really ought to consider one thing, surely while it's like it is it's not taxed to high heaven.

 

If legalised then it will like fags and booze be taxed to the hilt, so count your blessings, I tried a drag many years ago not my scene; I'll stick to the drugs I'm using now daily thanks very much.

[Bonzo77]

Will legalisation work? No because all the evidence points to the fact that more people will use drugs and exaggerate an already bad situation. And a druggie is someone that uses illegal drugs. The stupid people are the ones that take drugs and want them making legally available.

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2013 at 12:17 ----------

 

 

Drugs will have that effect on them, let them keep spouting their drug induced rubbish.

 

You can't prove that legalisation won't work. I can prove that prohibition doesn't work.

 

Richard Branson

Steve Jobs

Bill Clinton

Bill Gates

Aldus Huxley

Sigmund Freud

Albert Einstein

 

People that use drugs are stupid??

[Cyclone]

Will legalisation work? No because all the evidence points to the fact that more people will use drugs and exaggerate an already bad situation.

That's a lie and you know it. I've already shared a link which I know you read that demonstrates that drug use falls after legalisation.

And a druggie is someone that uses illegal drugs.

So legalisation has the added benefit of turning druggies into normal people overnight.

The stupid people are the ones that take drugs

You don't drink then? Or smoke, or like coffee or tea?

Or is the stupidity somehow coupled to the legal status?

Personally I think it's stupid when someone wants to continue a failed policy despite the evidence and without being able to explain logically why.

[ronthenekred]

Personally I think it's stupid when someone wants to continue a failed policy despite the evidence and without being able to explain logically why.

 

Ironically angos uses logic..not in the same way you I or most understand it, but some weird twisted translation. I think he sees himself as wanting to present himself as the arch villain type in The Matrix. Robotic, empty, machine automated like. Maybe he really is; Mr Smith.

[angos]

You keep saying "all the evidence" but you haven't presented any yet. You've posted the opinions of some people whose career depends on the continuation of drug prohibition, but no actual evidence that legalisation and regulation policies increase harm.

 

All the evidence points to you being unable to sustain your argument with "all the evidence" you keep referring to.

 

It's a truism that if all the evidence supports your conclusion, then there is something wrong with your evidence.

 

And what little evidence I have posted is substantially more that you and the supporters of legalisation have posted.

 

Tobacco and alcohol both legal and both very widely used, abused, smuggled and sold on the black market, both used and abused by children, both causing the hill health of millions and costing the NHS millions. What makes you thing legal drugs will be any different, legalisation will just increase the amount of users and the associated problems.

 

Show me some good evidence that this won't happen and I might change my opinion.

[Chris_Sleeps]

Tobacco and alcohol both legal and both very widely used, abused, smuggled and sold on the black market

No they aren't. I don't know anyone that buys black market alcohol. Everyone I knows goes to the supermarket, or the pub.

[angos]

Really? you actually believe that?

 

Here are some assumptions/propositions;

 

1, the government grow/ manufacture the whole range of drugs.

 

2, the government are responsible for quality control/distribution/setting taxes and licensing sellers of drugs.

 

3, the government via police are responsible for imposing strict punishments on unlicensed growers/sellers, also sale to minors use in front of a minor etc etc.

 

4, the nhs is responsible for dealing with anybody who chooses to seek help

to be detoxed/rehab ect ect.

 

And you somehow think the above would be a bad thing?

So you don't want that?

 

It wouldn't be a bad thing if it was possible, the fact is it isn't possible as demonstrated by the tobacco and alcohol industry.

 

The government are simply incapable of doing what you want them to do and its a fantasy to think they can.

 

 

 

you want to keep it illegal?

Yes

 

 

you want people with no social conscience to produce drugs your children may take?

No, but they will do it anyway regardless of the fantasy you have about the government being able to control supply.

 

you want all the jobs in the drugs industry to never pay direct tax?

No, but the illegal drug industry will continue by undercutting the government taxed supply.

 

 

you want to give some one a criminal record because they choose to sit in on an evening and get stoned and listen to beatles records?

How would anyone know if they don't leave the house? and if no ones knows they won't get a criminal record.

 

you want to keep the money offshore and not help your mums pension?

No, but it will remain offshore as the criminal gangs undercut the government and continue supplying drugs on the black market, the tax payers will be left to pay the hefty bill to solve all the additional problems that would be caused by an increased supply and increased users.

 

 

I can't see the attraction in those things myself.

 

You have invented a fantasy world in order to justify your stance on drugs.

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2013 at 16:48 ----------

 

You can't prove that legalisation won't work. I can prove that prohibition doesn't work.

Richard Branson

Steve Jobs

Bill Clinton

Bill Gates

Aldus Huxley

Sigmund Freud

Albert Einstein

 

People that use drugs are stupid??

 

 

 

No you can't, you can drag up a different era and claim it applies today, but it doesn't.

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2013 at 16:55 ----------

 

That's a lie and you know it. I've already shared a link which I know you read that demonstrates that drug use falls after legalisation.

 

No you didn't, your link claimed it falls after treatment.

 

 

 

So legalisation has the added benefit of turning druggies into normal people overnight.

It doesn't change anything, they are still the same people, dependent on a drug to make them happy, but it would increase the amount of users.

 

 

 

You don't drink then? Or smoke, or like coffee or tea?

No

 

 

 

Or is the stupidity somehow coupled to the legal status?

The stupidity is coupled to people using drugs which alter their mind.

 

Personally I think it's stupid when someone wants to continue a failed policy despite the evidence and without being able to explain logically why.

 

I agree, that is why I have explained why making them legal will increase supply and demand, and support increased treatment for users. Weening people off drugs is the answer, not letting them buy and use more.

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2013 at 16:57 ----------

 

Ironically angos uses logic..not in the same way you I or most understand it, but some weird twisted translation. I think he sees himself as wanting to present himself as the arch villain type in The Matrix. Robotic, empty, machine automated like. Maybe he really is; Mr Smith.

 

It comes from a clear mind, the drugs you have used have altered your ability to think rationally.

 

---------- Post added 26-10-2013 at 16:59 ----------

 

No they aren't. I don't know anyone that buys black market alcohol. Everyone I knows goes to the supermarket, or the pub.

 

Yes they are.

 

£28.5 billion of tax revenue has been lost to the illicit market in spirits, beer, cigarettes, hand rolling tobacco and diesel between 2005-06 and 2009-10.

 

All can be be bought legally yet people choose the break the law and buy them illegally. What makes you think drugs will be any different?

[Phanerothyme]

Why ban a drug that is harmless,

 

Cannabis isn't harmless.

 

It's relatively harmless compared to other commonly available street drugs, but the active ingredients are powerful psychotropics, and they can cause harm, especially when misused.

 

But the biggest harm you're likely to encounter from cannabis, on a balance of probabilities, is getting busted - which can obviously affect your whole life very negatively.

[psynuk]

The government are simply incapable of doing what you want them to do and its a fantasy to think they can.

 

No, but the illegal drug industry will continue by undercutting the government taxed supply.

 

No, but it will remain offshore as the criminal gangs undercut the government and continue supplying drugs on the black market, the tax payers will be left to pay the hefty bill to solve all the additional problems that would be caused by an increased supply and increased users.

 

You have invented a fantasy world in order to justify your stance on drugs.

 

I'd not underestimate the government when it comes to being able to organise things.

They do create the worlds most toxic substance and they do it well.

 

They could be quite efficient when motivated correctly.

If you could propose a viable way of creating, of admin, of revenue, of supply of drugs. The populace would vote for it. The ability of a govenent to proscribe heroin and its treatments (as it used to), to free up police and court time, to provide (100's of) thousands of jobs in the farming, chemical, distribution, packaging, retail industries is a vote winner.

Oh yeah not to mention the millions of drug users would be behind you, assuming they could be arsed to get up that is.

 

Your looking at it from a cynical point of view, 'It's bad, let's not make it worse'.

 

I'd propose taking a more realistic approach 'it's bad, but what were doing isn't making it better, so why not try something else?'

 

I've known many many people over the years take all kinds of drugs and the one single thing they had in common were they were criminals for doing so.

Most of those people would have gone to an approved government shop to buy them had the choice been available.

I could grow my own, but like tomatoes and alcohol I wouldn't, I'd rather go to the shop and pick from a reliable quality controlled dependable source.

When you buy cocain from a random dude in a club there's a very high chance that your not exactly getting genuine stuff. People trust the government/nhs to do as they say they will.

When was the last time you saw a patient second guessing the quality of the drugs proscribed for them? You just don't.

Which is why the criminal growers would be forced out.