Cyclone Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Thermal heating is the way forward, Govt loan to get it done, payed back at say £25 per month straight from your pay check/benefits. No more heating bills through gas or electric, Pump to run from solar power/Battery back up. Thermal heating, that sounds like dangerous, using thermal energy to make somewhere warm, it can only go wrong IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Thermal heating, that sounds like dangerous, using thermal energy to make somewhere warm, it can only go wrong IMO. He's talking about heat pumps, taking heat from outside, or the ground & pumping it into the house to heat the house. You can get 3 or 4 times more heat than the electricity you put in to run the pump. It's a bit like an air conditioner in reverse, cools the outside to heat the inside of the house. If you have solar panels fitted too, then it's free heat during daylight, once you've paid the installation costs. The costs should be covered by the feed in tariff after a few years, then you'll be getting paid to heat your home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I know, I was just trying to be funny. I did mean to make a serious point, which I forgot to do. Whilst it's true that the profits of the suppliers would fall, it's not by as much as you'd expect, when they supply you with gas they do have to pay for it. So if you use less and pay less, they also use less and pay less. The profit they lose is only the difference between the two prices. I've looked at the figures for solar thermal water heating, PV, ground and air source heat pumps and so on, I've looked at the expected and achieved COPs and the FIT rates and installation costs. There is still something like a 15 year payback period at the moment and if you sell houses are currently attracting no premium for any of these things being installed (house valuers just ignore them apparently). So you need to be sure that you're staying before you invest in any of them. Insulation on the other hand is relatively inexpensive to install in many cases and gives a much quicker payback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Just to clarify: When I suggested thermal heating, it was under the presumption that you had gone as far as possible on the insulation part. Floors, Ceilings, Loft, Roof, and cavity walls where applicable. Is Triple Glazing a big step up from double glazing? The whole idea for me is to be self sufficient and sell power back to the lecky conpany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davyboy Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I had the walls in our bungalow insulated under the Govt. grant scheme some years ago. It definitely made a difference and the place was warmer. We had had an extension added in 1973 which stipulated one inch insulation in the flat roof. Wwhen we had the roof redone in 2000 we had to put 6 inches in. 6 years ago we moved into a new build terrace and the difference in heating was amazing, the place is so well insulated. Our total gas and electric bill for a 3 bed terrace is £87/month. We even have to open the bedroom windows as it can get too hot!!! If the Govt. gave a subsidy to insulate every home it would save a fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anywebsite Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 I know, I was just trying to be funny. I did mean to make a serious point, which I forgot to do. Whilst it's true that the profits of the suppliers would fall, it's not by as much as you'd expect, when they supply you with gas they do have to pay for it. So if you use less and pay less, they also use less and pay less. The profit they lose is only the difference between the two prices. I've looked at the figures for solar thermal water heating, PV, ground and air source heat pumps and so on, I've looked at the expected and achieved COPs and the FIT rates and installation costs. There is still something like a 15 year payback period at the moment and if you sell houses are currently attracting no premium for any of these things being installed (house valuers just ignore them apparently). So you need to be sure that you're staying before you invest in any of them. Insulation on the other hand is relatively inexpensive to install in many cases and gives a much quicker payback. You should get insulation first, no point having efficient heating if you're wasting it, but there's only so much you can insulate a house. Once that's sorted you can reduce bills further, if you have money to tie up in a high yield long term investment, get a government 'green deal' thing, get a loan or get 'free' solar panels. One of my neighbours had solar panels fitted on their small roof (too small for the free solar panels companies to be interested), we saw all the quotes & everything because we have a similar house, it was estimated to pay back in 8 years. Apparently it's outperforming the salesman's estimates so far. Photovoltaic solar panels have a better return than solar thermal, once you have those the electricity to run the heat pump is much cheaper. First you should make sure you've got as much insulation as you can, you should make sure windows & doors are draft free, insulated. Then if you can, think about solar pv, then heat pumps. I'm not sure how heat pumps stack up against new efficient gas boilers if you don't have solar pv & pay full price for your electricity, a new gas boiler might be worth looking at if you have an old one & can't have solar / heat pumps. Insulation is half of it, the other half is making sure the heat is being generated as efficiently as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angos Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 Reverberated? Yes just spotted that, how odd, my computer must be faulty. Should have been renovated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteMorris Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 Yes just spotted that, how odd, my computer must be faulty. Should have been renovated. I'm not sure it matters...we all get the drift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fogey Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 The problem seems to be that there appears to be no real incentive for the big 6 to find ways to reduce the cost of energy at the wholesale point and no incentive for the wholesalers to reduce their production costs by reinvesting their profits. They simply pass the cost on because they can and they know the consumer has no real choice but to pay. What other realistic option have most people got? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francypants Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Just a word of warning. Don't block up every air vent in your house, they are there for a number of reasons and one being safety. A couple my husband once knew did just that and one morning the couple and their dog were all found dead in their living room, unbeknown to them their gas fire was faulty and emitting deadly fumes. Also they help stop condensation which can cause numerous health problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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