US hacking hypocrisy

[mjw47]

Harleyman,

 

How else do they communicate? Well, during the Anglo-Irish discussions- which eventually led to the Good Friday agreement - the Irish government found out that the British Embassy in Dublin had managed to 'crack' the Swiss made code machine they were using to monitor communications between Dublin & the Irish Embassy in London.

 

How did they find out? Turns out they were 'monitoring' the British Embassy in Dublin themselves. Everyone is at it.

 

From then on they communicated by sending written information. An Irish Embassy 'official' would drive to Heathrow & hand a sealed document to the Captain of an Aer Lingus flight to Dublin, upon arrival he would be met by an army dispatch rider. The reverse would then apply for return information.

 

Meanwhile of course the compromised Swiss code machine was used to dis-inform.

 

The way to beat new technology is to use old technology.

[XXTickerXX]

apparently due to ed snowdens leaks the terrorists have stopped communications, we can't track them, the authorities fear a 9/11 type attack here, apparently it happened with bin laden just berfore 9/11

 

Is anyone stupid enough to believe that terrorists didn`t know that communications were being monitored anyway. Did they think the drones magically appeared though guesswork. They have always known and taken appropriate measures.

 

It`s always been about the need to know everything and control.

 

It would not surprise me in the slightest if in the next few months their was a massive court case in the US or UK “prove” how amazingly necessary the surveillance state is.

 

Nobody can say it has no effect and maybe they catch lots of terrorists they don`t tell us about and ship them to Guantanamo but do they need to read everybody`s emails and texts if you are not a suspect. That`s dictatorship territory not a democracy.

[dosxuk]

That wasn't an attack planned and carried out by Al Qaeda

 

And? Nobody mentioned Al Qaeda. You said

 

There hasnt been a terrorist act in the US in a decade and that's due in no small measure to intelligence gathering

 

and then later even more nonsense

 

The fact remains however that intelliegence gathering on a large scale has prevented any further organized terrorist attacks either in the US and in Europe.

 

Intelligence gathering on the current scale has prevented no more attacks than those used 15 years ago. Targeted, thorough monitoring of suspected groups will always be more successful than the current "we must know everything" style monitoring.

 

And even if you were only talking about Al Queda from the start, do you really think Angela Merkel will be talking on the phone about Al Queda plans? It sounds like you're suggesting she's a member!

[truman]

The fact remains however that intelliegence gathering on a large scale has prevented any further organized terrorist attacks either in the US and in Europe.

 

.

 

How about the Madrid train bombing in 2004...? Or are you saying that intelligence gathering only started after this...?

[L00b]

Merkel's mobile tapping was for economical/realpolitik reasons, pure and simple. There can be no other logical explanation. Same goes for any tapping of the higher echelons of Gvt of 'friendly' nations/NATO 'allies'.

 

So, nothing to do with terrorism whatsoever, but all to do with getting intel on what the German Gvt was up to, in advance of any negotiations/position-taking (e.g. about Libya, Syria, EU finances, Greece, etc.)

 

Were I German, I'd consider that an act of outright belligerence/economical spying.

[mjw47]

Merkel's mobile tapping was for economical/realpolitik reasons, pure and simple. There can be no other logical explanation. Same goes for any tapping of the higher echelons of Gvt of 'friendly' nations/NATO 'allies'.

 

So, nothing to do with terrorism whatsoever, but all to do with getting intel on what the German Gvt was up to, in advance of any negotiations/position-taking (e.g. about Libya, Syria, EU finances, Greece, etc.)

 

Were I German, I'd consider that an act of outright belligerence/economical spying.

 

So would I, & I have no doubt whatsoever that the US is doing exactly the same to us.

 

This all about what international politics has always been about, self interest.

 

'Special Relationship' & 'Hands across the sea' etc are, & always have been, complete nonsensical diplomatic blarney.

Every country looks out for it's own advantage. I have no problem with it personally I'd just like to be spared the bull excrement.

[Harleyman]

And? Nobody mentioned Al Qaeda. You said

 

 

 

and then later even more nonsense

 

 

 

Intelligence gathering on the current scale has prevented no more attacks than those used 15 years ago. Targeted, thorough monitoring of suspected groups will always be more successful than the current "we must know everything" style monitoring.

 

And even if you were only talking about Al Queda from the start, do you really think Angela Merkel will be talking on the phone about Al Queda plans? It sounds like you're suggesting she's a member!

 

Yes it has. There are now large numbers of people from the middle east, Somalia and Yemen in Europe so since there's no way to target specific ethnic groups when monitoring phone calls it makes sense to monitor all people.

Beyond a doubt there are people in Britain, many of them born there who are radical islamists, violently anti-American and who would be willing if recruited to become active in planning future acts of terrorism.

No doubt the British police and intelligence gatherers know who these people are and keep an eye on them and since these wannabe terrorists know they are under surveillance they are pretty much forced to remain dormant.

 

If you deny this you are living in a fools paradise

 

---------- Post added 31-10-2013 at 17:15 ----------

 

How about the Madrid train bombing in 2004...? Or are you saying that intelligence gathering only started after this...?

 

Was that carried out by a Muslim group or the Basque freedom movement?

[dosxuk]

you are living in a fools paradise

 

Not as much as those who believe the only risk of terrorism comes from extremist islamists or those who believe that the only solution to terrorism is to monitor every person on the planet for wayward thoughts.

[dvp82]

Yes it has. There are now large numbers of people from the middle east, Somalia and Yemen in Europe so since there's no way to target specific ethnic groups when monitoring phone calls it makes sense to monitor all people.

Beyond a doubt there are people in Britain, many of them born there who are radical islamists, violently anti-American and who would be willing if recruited to become active in planning future acts of terrorism.

No doubt the British police and intelligence gatherers know who these people are and keep an eye on them and since these wannabe terrorists know they are under surveillance they are pretty much forced to remain dormant.

 

If you deny this you are living in a fools paradise

 

---------- Post added 31-10-2013 at 17:15 ----------

 

Was that carried out by a Muslim group or the Basque freedom movement?

 

Does it matter who carried out the attacks in Madrid or Boston, the fact terror attacks have happened in Europe and the USA since 9/11. Or are you suggesting that because Al-Qaeda might not have been involved in them that all this snooping has been a great success.

[altus]

Was that carried out by a Muslim group or the Basque freedom movement?

 

I'm not sure why you're making the distinction between them. Bombs are bombs and kill people whether they are planted by al Qaeda affiliates or local, supposedly secular, groups. I doubt various national authorities try any less to stop one rather than the other. If blanket monitoring of communications works for one it should work just as well for the other.