UK [to be] 'fastest-growing Western economy'

[Hillpig]

The truth is that most countries on varying levels did exactly what the UK did: capital injections to prop up the banks. Some even went as far as us in part-nationalising banks. The UK response was not unique.

 

The response from other countries followed the UK example. When Brown stood up in Parliament and made the slip of the tongue regarding "saving the world" he was actually right.

 

The problem is that all we are doing is short term, debt levels are precarious, although we are seeing improvement under Cameron and Osborne they have inherited a poisoned chalice. That improvement will have to go on uninterrupted for many years before we are back in balance.

 

There is an obvious possibility that we may suffer from unforeseen happenstance, natural disaster, 9/11 repeat, pandemic. Sooner or later something will happen to rock the economy.

 

We would have been in a better position now, if Brown had let the Banks go under. Debt cleared, clean balance sheets, still messy, but not as precarious.

 

So, on balance, the position we are now in is due to the following,

 

1. Blair and Brown borrowed too much and failed to control the banks.

2. When the crisis hit we had little in reserve

3. Brown made the easy decision in bailing the banks out.

4. Labour politicians still fail to see they did anything wrong because they have a fundamental inability to understand that you should only spend what you can afford to.

5. On the basis that they have inherited a disastrous situation Cameron and Osborne are doing ok, however the 2010 election was a bad one to win, the decisions they are making are difficult for a populace, used to high standards of welfare, public service and quality of life have to make sacrifices.

 

---------- Post added 07-11-2013 at 09:59 ----------

 

And what would have happened if it was your bank that went bust? Remember the ATMS were 24 hours from drying up, then the chances are that people who have had to steal to eat, civil unrest and starvation etc. In fact, a few weeks ago the papers were full of Brown considering policing the streets with troops at the time in case that very scenario arose. What would your beloved Tories have done, eh? Let people starve through no fault of their own?

 

All of the above would probably have happened. short term pain, long term gain.

 

Remember the situation was caused by your "beloved" socialists. As usual the Tories are getting us out of the disaster you lot caused.

[I1L2T3]

The response from other countries followed the UK example. When Brown stood up in Parliament and made the slip of the tongue regarding "saving the world" he was actually right.

 

The problem is that all we are doing is short term, debt levels are precarious, although we are seeing improvement under Cameron and Osborne they have inherited a poisoned chalice. That improvement will have to go on uninterrupted for many years before we are back in balance.

 

There is an obvious possibility that we may suffer from unforeseen happenstance, natural disaster, 9/11 repeat, pandemic. Sooner or later something will happen to rock the economy.

 

We would have been in a better position now, if Brown had let the Banks go under. Debt cleared, clean balance sheets, still messy, but not as precarious.

 

So, on balance, the position we are now in is due to the following,

 

1. Blair and Brown borrowed too much and failed to control the banks.

2. When the crisis hit we had little in reserve

3. Brown made the easy decision in bailing the banks out.

4. Labour politicians still fail to see they did anything wrong because they have a fundamental inability to understand that you should only spend what you can afford to.

5. On the basis that they have inherited a disastrous situation Cameron and Osborne are doing ok, however the 2010 election was a bad one to win, the decisions they are making are difficult for a populace, used to high standards of welfare, public service and quality of life have to make sacrifices.

 

.

 

I don't disagree that whoever is in power right now has a very tough job. I don't disagree that Labour made a lot of mistakes. One of the main ones of course was light touch regulation but in their defence it has to be said that no country anywhere has worked out how to regulate the banking sector as it has developed since the 70s - it has become a tangled web of cross-border institutions with the shadow banking sector (largely unregulated and off limits) becoming ever more important. Osborne hasn't shown he has the foggiest idea how to deal with it either.

 

What I don't agree with is that we would have had anything in reserve, whatever the government. Conservative governments have consistently run deficits for decades and that is caused by the fundamentally screwed-up structure of our economy and trends like globalisation. The Conservative mantra is not to run up surpluses, but rather to balance the books.

 

As for Labour learning from mistakes you have a critical point there. Mistakes were made and continue to be repeated. I'm a strong believer that if something is broken then only by understanding how it got broken can you understand how to fix it. This means parties understanding their own mistakes and the mistakes of other parties. I can't see any evidence that they have learned from the past and it's why I've walked away from ever supporting the main parties.

 

Finally, Cameron did not win the 2010 election. Not outright anyway. That is actually quite stunning when you consider he was up against Brown.

[Hillpig]

I don't disagree that whoever is in power right now has a very tough job. I don't disagree that Labour made a lot of mistakes. One of the main ones of course was light touch regulation but in their defence it has to be said that no country anywhere has worked out how to regulate the banking sector as it has developed since the 70s - it has become a tangled web of cross-border institutions with the shadow banking sector (largely unregulated and off limits) becoming ever more important. Osborne hasn't shown he has the foggiest idea how to deal with it either.

 

What I don't agree with is that we would have had anything in reserve, whatever the government. Conservative governments have consistently run deficits for decades and that is caused by the fundamentally screwed-up structure of our economy and trends like globalisation. The Conservative mantra is not to run up surpluses, but rather to balance the books.

 

As for Labour learning from mistakes you have a critical point there. Mistakes were made and continue to be repeated. I'm a strong believer that if something is broken then only by understanding how it got broken can you understand how to fix it. This means parties understanding their own mistakes and the mistakes of other parties. I can't see any evidence that they have learned from the past and it's why I've walked away from ever supporting the main parties.

 

Finally, Cameron did not win the 2010 election. Not outright anyway. That is actually quite stunning when you consider he was up against Brown.

 

Good points, well stated. Regarding Tory governments running deficits, you are right, but what is the reason for this? Basically they have had the dead weight of previous Labour governments mismanagement to deal with and it takes time.

 

Labour mismanagement goes back to the end of the second world war and Attlees government. (actually I have some respect for Attlee and without going into details do consider him a very good PM).

 

Perhaps had the divide between Tory and Labour not been so wide. That we had a system closer say to Germanys, then we would not have spent the last 60 years teeming and ladling conflicting policies.

[Mecky]

All the tories do is create bubbles just before the election and then bribe people for votes with tax cuts. It is short-termism and not for the long term. They call themselves the party of low taxation, but it simply just isn't true. 50% to 45 or whatever it was affected very few people in the UK e.g. very few Footballers like Tevez got an extra £5K per week in their pay packet whilst most people struggle to put food on the table let alone keep warm. We were told the economy is the fastest growing, well I don't trust the figures. it's very suspicious activity indeed especially since the growth forecast was halved last Spring.

 

Then there is the unemployment situation, to some point fudged by all governments, but things were not as bad as they are now. Planning to keep kids in school until the pass exams, pusjing kids onto schemes, stopping benefits etc, it's truly disgusting. I want to see the quality of life improved for everyone in the UK and the tories simply have no intention of letting that happen.

[Hillpig]

All the tories do is create bubbles just before the election and then bribe people for votes with tax cuts. It is short-termism and not for the long term. They call themselves the party of low taxation, but it simply just isn't true. 50% to 45 or whatever it was affected very few people in the UK e.g. very few Footballers like Tevez got an extra £5K per week in their pay packet whilst most people struggle to put food on the table let alone keep warm. We were told the economy is the fastest growing, well I don't trust the figures. it's very suspicious activity indeed especially since the growth forecast was halved last Spring.

 

Then there is the unemployment situation, to some point fudged by all governments, but things were not as bad as they are now. Planning to keep kids in school until the pass exams, pusjing kids onto schemes, stopping benefits etc, it's truly disgusting. I want to see the quality of life improved for everyone in the UK and the tories simply have no intention of letting that happen.

 

Mecky, we are having a serious conversation here, nobodies abusive, everyone seems to respect the others point of view. Nobodies ranting, then you turn up.

 

Why don't you get todays Socialist Worker and do the crossword. Keep yourself occupied.

[Peer Gynt]

Mecky, we are having a serious conversation here, nobodies abusive, everyone seems to respect the others point of view. Nobodies ranting, then you turn up.

 

Why don't you get todays Socialist Worker and do the crossword. Keep yourself occupied.

He's waiting for his mate Ronthenekred to come on stirring it.

[Hillpig]

He's waiting for his mate Ronthenekred to come on stirring it.

 

That will be a meeting of minds!

[Peer Gynt]

That will be a meeting of minds!

 

Simple Minds comes to mind.

[Mecky]

Mecky, we are having a serious conversation here, nobodies abusive, everyone seems to respect the others point of view. Nobodies ranting, then you turn up.

 

Why don't you get todays Socialist Worker and do the crossword. Keep yourself occupied.

 

You digressed in post 93, I merely gave an accurate response which you don't agree with. Don't make this into another circle thread

[WeX]

All the tories do is create bubbles just before the election and then bribe people for votes with tax cuts. It is short-termism and not for the long term. They call themselves the party of low taxation, but it simply just isn't true. 50% to 45 or whatever it was affected very few people in the UK e.g. very few Footballers like Tevez got an extra £5K per week in their pay packet whilst most people struggle to put food on the table let alone keep warm. We were told the economy is the fastest growing, well I don't trust the figures. it's very suspicious activity indeed especially since the growth forecast was halved last Spring. .

 

The term stealth tax was coined by the media under the Labour administration.

 

Didn't Labour abolish the 10p tax rate doubling the tax rate for the lowest earners?

Didn't Labour increased National Insurance?

Didn't Labour increase VAT to 17.5% (The coalition raised it to 20% but Labour refused to rule this out too prior to the election)?

 

The Institute for Fiscal Studies reported back in 2008 that Labour's tax rises cost families £900 a year more. Not only that, labour also froze the personal tax allowance and National Insurance threshold for a number of years while they were in power, meaning we all paid more tax and NI.