Recent Immigrants make "net contribution" to finances

[RonJeremy]

That's just the thing. What jobs are you talking about exactly? Steelworkers in general aren't exactly the most multi-talented people out there. You say we should give them jobs, but what if they are not qualified? The immigrants that come into this country aren't all unskilled as you would like to believe. Some are degree educated and make excellent engineers and doctors for example. I am sure your average shopfloor steelworker will not be to perform those duties.

 

Hilarious

You know we're talking about the unskilled ones that area a drain on the economy.

 

---------- Post added 10-11-2015 at 21:40 ----------

 

British Business employs them over Brits............Immigrants don't just jump into jobs by accident...........there must be a reason for it.

 

Because they will do jobs that those on benefits wont do. Because they get paid too much on benefits.

[WiseOwl182]

You cnat really do that unless ofc you want to leave the EU. No idea if thats your wish.

It will be good to remove tax credits over time and then employers can bear the true cost.

 

Yes, I will be voting out. I don't think we'll be "allowed" to leave though.

[Zamo]

They detail their methodology in the study and how they differentiate between services used and passive services as you describe. You will have to go and look at the study.

 

You cna read the study yourself its quite in depth. I was willing to accpet there was a major flaw of expenses not addressed but looking at the study they go into great detail about how they reached their figures.

 

I've seen the detail. They seek to proportion the 'draw' immigrants make against state coffers compared to the contribution. But 'draw' is impossible to assess on an individual basis or even by cohort. It is also irrelevant because we do not pay in on a by usage/draw basis. We have to contribute to all the expenditure that makes this country great regardless of how much we contribute as individuals to the various expenditures. The NHS is a classic example of this because we are not expected to contribute what we cost it but what our share is to achieve free at point of contact care for all... we pay the insurance premium not our bill for usage. UCL also apply other cheats such as proportioning the cost of defence. UCL decided that immigrants are only liable to contribute the additional cost for defence that results directly from their presence. That is obviously very low compared to the actual cost of our defence and is a complete cheat... immigrants benefit exactly the same as the rest of us from our defence expenditure and are therefore liable for an equal share in the expense. The same cheats are applied when it comes to schools, welfare, social services etc, etc. It is cheat after cheat to get the immigration cost liability down to the point where it is less than contribution. It is nothing more than a lie.

 

In using the same xenophobic logic that is displayed in this thread. Can we not kick out the soon to be unemployed steelworkers who will now be a drain on the welfare state?

 

Some will pay more than their fair share in taxes because they can afford to and some will not. It is the same for everyone. We cannot just mandate all immigrants must be net contributors. It is unreasonable as we cannot guarantee this condition on ourselves.

 

We can't kick out soon to be unemployed steel workers because they are citizens of this country and have a right to residency (we also have nowhere to kick them to even if we wanted to). The same is not true for foreigners and we can (in theory) pick and choose. I think that choosing not to share our wealth with poor foreigners is both reasonable and sensible. You can argue that my position is greedy and selfish but to call it xenophobic is ridiculous.

[chalga]

I've seen the detail. They seek to proportion the 'draw' immigrants make against state coffers compared to the contribution. But 'draw' is impossible to assess on an individual basis or even by cohort. It is also irrelevant because we do not pay in on a by usage/draw basis. We have to contribute to all the expenditure that makes this country great regardless of how much we contribute as individuals to the various expenditures. The NHS is a classic example of this because we are not expected to contribute what we cost it but what our share is to achieve free at point of contact care for all... we pay the insurance premium not our bill for usage. UCL also apply other cheats such as proportioning the cost of defence. UCL decided that immigrants are only liable to contribute the additional cost for defence that results directly from their presence. That is obviously very low compared to the actual cost of our defence and is a complete cheat... immigrants benefit exactly the same as the rest of us from our defence expenditure and are therefore liable for an equal share in the expense. The same cheats are applied when it comes to schools, welfare, social services etc, etc. It is cheat after cheat to get the immigration cost liability down to the point where it is less than contribution. It is nothing more than a lie.

 

What you are claiming has no logic..........all these things are government expenditure,so immigrants contribute the same amounts through deductions from their wages as what any British would do............according to the current tax laws that apply on earnings that everybody,Brit or Immigrant,is bound by...........what you are implying is that an immigrant should have more tax deducted from their wages to go to the government because they are not paying their fair share.........they are paying what they are legally bound to pay to the government by law...........the only other conclusion is that they are fiddling tax,or that the same tax laws that bind everybody are somehow beneficial to the immigrant at the expense of the Brit...........how can that be if the tax laws are the same for every person working be it Brit or immigrant?

[Guest]

Immigrants or ethnic groups that are not white English seem to be the groups most likely to go in to higher education.

 

So will be more beneficial to these shores if they decide to work in the UK.

 

Typically (as some SF members on here) probably rue their own upbringing and poor situation (i.e. lacking in education or a skilled job- but find it easier to blame other ethnic groups for all their woes:hihi:)

 

White British pupils the least likely UK ethnic group to go to university, new research reveals

 

White British pupils are the least likely ethnic group in the UK to go to university, new research reveals. Young people from other ethnic groups who tend to perform badly in school tests and exams – including black Caribbean, Pakistani and Bangladeshi pupils – are more likely to go on to higher education, the study shows.

 

My mother always told her sons- education, education and education..as I will be doing the same with my kids.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/white-british-pupils-the-least-likely-uk-ethnic-group-to-go-to-university-new-research-reveals-a6729361.html

[WiseOwl182]

Immigrants or ethnic groups that are not white English seem to be the groups most likely to go in to higher education.

 

So will be more beneficial to these shores if they decide to work in the UK.

 

Typically (as some SF members on here) probably rue their own upbringing and poor situation (i.e. lacking in education or a skilled job- but find it easier to blame other ethnic groups for all their woes:hihi:)

 

White British pupils the least likely UK ethnic group to go to university, new research reveals

 

 

 

My mother always told her sons- education, education and education..as I will be doing the same with my kids.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/white-british-pupils-the-least-likely-uk-ethnic-group-to-go-to-university-new-research-reveals-a6729361.html

 

 

Wow. You're making some massive assumptions about people on here who don't subscribe to your open doors view. You're also conflating issues to make a false point. How educated are the 40% of EU migrants that come here every year and earn so little that they need my taxes to subsidise them with working tax credits?

[retep]

Immigrants or ethnic groups that are not white English seem to be the groups most likely to go in to higher education.

 

So will be more beneficial to these shores if they decide to work in the UK.

 

Typically (as some SF members on here) probably rue their own upbringing and poor situation (i.e. lacking in education or a skilled job- but find it easier to blame other ethnic groups for all their woes:hihi:)

 

White British pupils the least likely UK ethnic group to go to university, new research reveals

 

 

 

My mother always told her sons- education, education and education..as I will be doing the same with my kids.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/white-british-pupils-the-least-likely-uk-ethnic-group-to-go-to-university-new-research-reveals-a6729361.html

 

 

Probably held back whilst educating migrants.

[gomgeg]

Immigrants or ethnic groups that are not white English seem to be the groups most likely to go in to higher education.

 

So will be more beneficial to these shores if they decide to work in the UK.

 

Typically (as some SF members on here) probably rue their own upbringing and poor situation (i.e. lacking in education or a skilled job- but find it easier to blame other ethnic groups for all their woes:hihi:)

 

White British pupils the least likely UK ethnic group to go to university, new research reveals

 

 

 

My mother always told her sons- education, education and education..as I will be doing the same with my kids.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/white-british-pupils-the-least-likely-uk-ethnic-group-to-go-to-university-new-research-reveals-a6729361.html

So, if they're highly educated they'll make a fortune back home.

Is that why 40 percent claim in work benefits?

It's fairly typical on here that if you're against taxpayers money being spent on immigrants you're labelled xenophobic or uneducated.

[Zamo]

What you are claiming has no logic..........all these things are government expenditure,so immigrants contribute the same amounts through deductions from their wages as what any British would do............according to the current tax laws that apply on earnings that everybody,Brit or Immigrant,is bound by...........what you are implying is that an immigrant should have more tax deducted from their wages to go to the government because they are not paying their fair share.........they are paying what they are legally bound to pay to the government by law...........the only other conclusion is that they are fiddling tax,or that the same tax laws that bind everybody are somehow beneficial to the immigrant at the expense of the Brit...........how can that be if the tax laws are the same for every person working be it Brit or immigrant?

 

Yawn.

 

Yes, everyone who makes a contribution through tax pays for all the expenditures I listed... including immigrants. What I said was that UCL (and others) exclude those costs when calculating 'positive contribution' for immigrants. They find dodgy justifications for removing liabilities and massively reducing the level at which contribution becomes positive. It is a cheat.

 

I didn't say anything about immigrants not paying their fair share or what they are legally bound to pay. My point about 'fair share' is that it isn't the same a 'share', which should be used to calculate whether contribution is positive or negative. 'Fair share' is achieved by making adjustments to what tax people pay based on their income and circumstances (it has nothing to do with what that take from the state in direct benefits or services). Someone can be paying their fair share but doing so doesn't make it a positive contribution unless it is more than their equal 'share' of the burden that is State expenditure.

[GLASGOWOODS]

Probably held back whilst educating migrants.

 

That's true. My partners daughter (12yrs old), complained to her mum because in class she was asked to mentor another classmate who could hardly speak English. She couldn't get her own work done.