altus Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 What would be the point supposing a family on a salary of £35k have been renting for MANY YEARS but now suddenly find themselves up against it and not able to afford their rent? it's not realistic as nobody would do that so there is nobody in that category at risk. I can imagine a family who have been renting for maybe a short time on a £35k salary who suddenly find it hard to make their rent but then it's no big deal if they have to move. But not for many years which is the very real scenario now hitting the £500 pw benefits families. It's not a fair, probable or possible scenario. Forget the unrealistic what if's and focus on the real right now's. I'm not interested in scoring points on this thread, I'm concerned about the very real problems facing the families at risk who this cap is going to hit really hard when they have no options. I know someone who was on a good wage and brought his children up in the same rented house for many years (decades). Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it can't happen. Given all the talk of a 'generation of renters' it's only going to get more common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FACEBOOK Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I know someone who was on a good wage and brought his children up in the same rented house for many years (decades). Just because you can't imagine it doesn't mean it can't happen. If someone has achieved a good wage and is able to rent for (decades), you've got to hope they would have had the sense to buy when they could afford to especially if they had young children and planned on staying in an area to bring them up, even if just to secure schooling. It was right there for them, for the taking, but they CHOSE not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 If someone has achieved a good wage and is able to rent for (decades), you've got to hope they would have had the sense to buy when they could afford to especially if they had young children and planned on staying in an area to bring them up, even if just to secure schooling. It was right there for them, for the taking, but they CHOSE not to. Who said they planned on staying in the area? Circumstances with work may have meant there was a possibility they would have to move that made it not worth buying a property. Saying the equivalent of 'that doesn't count' every time someone points out the flaws in your arguments isn't helping your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FACEBOOK Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Who said they planned on staying in the area? Circumstances with work may have meant there was a possibility they would have to move that made it not worth buying a property. Saying the equivalent of 'that doesn't count' every time someone points out the flaws in your arguments isn't helping your position. You said they brought up their children in the same rented house for decades. You would have to hope the penny would drop at some point and they would buy. My position can't be changed as my position is my opinion and it is firm in that it is wrong to force a single mother and her children out of their home away from their schools, friends and family when they have no other options. There are no flaws in that argument or that opinion. I do appreciate that you guys have the opposite opinion. Which is of course the wrong opinion to have when we are talking about the lives of children. Look deep into your dark hearts and you will find your way. I have faith in you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happ Hazzard Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Nobody has the RIGHT to live in an area of their choosing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 You said they brought up their children in the same rented house for decades. You would have to hope the penny would drop at some point and they would buy. My position can't be changed as my position is my opinion and it is firm in that it is wrong to force a single mother and her children out of their home away from their schools, friends and family when they have no other options. There are no flaws in that argument or that opinion. I do appreciate that you guys have the opposite opinion. Which is of course the wrong opinion to have when we are talking about the lives of children. Look deep into your dark hearts and you will find your way. I have faith in you. If someone gets told they are being made redundant and gets another job somewhere else, possibly on lower wages, that still means moving their children away from their "schools, friends and family". They wouldn't have much choice about it either. Your insistence that this upheaval to children's lives only applies to those of single mothers living on benefits is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FACEBOOK Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Nobody has the RIGHT to live in an area of their choosing. They didn't choose it, they were presumably offered the property and accepted what they were offered at the time. It's wrong to now move them. ---------- Post added 06-11-2013 at 20:08 ---------- If someone gets told they are being made redundant and gets another job somewhere else, possibly on lower wages, that still means moving their children away from their "schools, friends and family". They wouldn't have much choice about it either. Your insistence that this upheaval to children's lives only applies to those of single mothers living on benefits is false. My insistence is those on a good wage or £35k which is what everyone was comparing it with is a ridiculous comparison and I stand by that for all the reasons I've given previously. Now you are coming along with all of your different scenarios, first the working family is on a good wage renting for decades, now they're on a lower wage and renting and have to move. Why not make up another 100 different situations none of which will help anyone. The reality and issue here is that the £500 pw cap is wrong if it means those with no choice, vulnerable people without options or the ability to cope will be forced out of their homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altus Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 My insistence is those on a good wage or £35k which is what everyone was comparing it with is a ridiculous comparison and I stand by that for all the reasons I've given previously. Now you are coming along with all of your different scenarios, first the working family is on a good wage renting for decades, now they're on a lower wage and renting and have to move. Why not make up another 100 different situations none of which will help anyone. The reality and issue here is that the £500 pw cap is wrong if it means those with no choice, vulnerable people without options or the ability to cope will be forced out of their homes. £500 per week is £500 per week regardless of whether that's paid as benefits or as what's left from £35K after you've paid tax. You claimed nobody who could buy would chose to rent. I demonstrated that was wrong. I pointed out that working people with children sometimes have to move with no real choice about the matter. You are still maintaining that such a upheaval is more difficult for the children of someone claiming benefits than those of a working parent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FACEBOOK Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 £500 per week is £500 per week regardless of whether that's paid as benefits or as what's left from £35K after you've paid tax. You claimed nobody who could buy would chose to rent. I demonstrated that was wrong. I pointed out that working people with children sometimes have to move with no real choice about the matter. You are still maintaining that such a upheaval is more difficult for the children of someone claiming benefits than those of a working parent. You've obviously not read all of the thread and it's pointless me repeating myself just because someone new comes to the thread and makes the same points already raised to which I've already answered. I appreciate people rarely go from the start of a thread but I doubt you can post anything now which hasn't already been said. So maybe this will help. I'm not trying to win an argument, any "argument" was lost before I made my first post because the government obviously feels the same as you guys, the court agrees with you guys but my opinion of the £500 pw cap legal challenge being lost is that it will have devastating effects on vulnerable people and ruin lives. And that I will never agree with. If only the government could promise to base all of their decisions on a case by case basis but that won't happen, they make a blanket ruling and screw everyone over regardless of their vulnerable circumstances. I can't help but feel sorry for them and will continue to do so. I think the best I can do is say that if anyone posts anything on this thread to make me think differently, then I'll let you know, can't say fairer than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 To compare a family on £35k to that of a family on benefits is completely ridiculous anyway I agree. The working family will incur extra expenses associated with work such as travel costs, child care and additional clothing and laundry costs. The stay at home family will have none of these costs. Unless I've got my sums wrong, a single working person wishing to earn £35k a year would need an hourly rate of roughly £20. It's also worth pointing out that £35k is what a senior and experienced nurse can expect to earn. A fire fighter earns about £30k. A police constable earns about £26k. I just thought these numbers might help people who believe that £500 a week is "poverty" to get a grip on reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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