Marine found guilty of murder

[Happ Hazzard]

The last time we needed "defending" was when the French invaded at Fishguard in 1797. We have NEVER been invaded by a Muslim state (unless you count the tenuous claim of Spain in 1601, but Islam had been mostly pushed out of Spain by then). How many Muslim countries have we invaded?

Should we have waited until Hitler invaded Britain until entering WW2? If we'd have done that, there's a very good chance the Nazis would have won.

 

In the last 200 years, who has killed more people, the British Army? Or the armies of every Islamic nation on this earth?

It's not the armies of Islamic nations that are the problem for the most part. It's terrorist groups. I don't think many people would have such a problem with them if they had the decency to officially declare war on Western countries. But we have the sneaky terrorist attacks that are not "officially" sanctioned by the governments of the countries the attackers emanate from.

[Harleyman]

Yes, all the women and kids murdered did deserve it i guess.

 

So you counter my accurate and true statement with the above? Are you an apologist for the Taliban?

Women and kids get murdered in Pakistan and Afghanistan for daring to believe that they have the right to go to school and be treated as equals.

Women and kids accidentally killed by drones is tragic enough but killing women for saying the "wrong" thing is downright despicable and just plain cowardly

 

---------- Post added 08-11-2013 at 21:53 ----------

 

Another fooled by the lies.

 

So you'd feel perfectly safe as a tourist walking around Quetta for instance?

[megalithic]

So you counter my accurate and true statement with the above? Are you an apologist for the Taliban?

Women and kids get murdered in Pakistan and Afghanistan for daring to believe that they have the right to go to school and be treated as equals.

Women and kids accidentally killed by drones is tragic enough but killing women for saying the "wrong" thing is downright despicable and just plain cowardly

 

---------- Post added 08-11-2013 at 21:53 ----------

 

 

So you'd feel perfectly safe as a tourist walking around Quetta for instance?

 

Your train of thought/thought process is funny.

Just glad it's not one we share.

[Marx]

They're not innocents. They're Taliban scum who get up to every trick in the book to kill or maim at will.

To demonstrate how loathsome they are the Taliban fanatic who shot 14 years old school girl Malal for saying she had a right to an education has now been made leader of that group.

 

I'm so relieved we don't have Christian fanatic scum that would murder people in front of their children, kill teenagers for going out with the wrong kind of Christian or plant bombs where they would kill and maim women and children.

[tinfoilhat]

So you counter my accurate and true statement with the above? Are you an apologist for the Taliban?

Women and kids get murdered in Pakistan and Afghanistan for daring to believe that they have the right to go to school and be treated as equals.

Women and kids accidentally killed by drones is tragic enough but killing women for saying the "wrong" thing is downright despicable and just plain cowardly

 

---------- Post added 08-11-2013 at 21:53 ----------

 

 

So you'd feel perfectly safe as a tourist walking around Quetta for instance?

 

Ok harleyman. You've been there. Would you, once finding an enemy combatant in a field, discuss with your comrades what to do then decide after a bit of a chat, kill him?

[bignasty]

Another fooled by the lies.

 

You have no idea. I was happy, and still am to give up 17 years of my life to serve my country, and have seen horrors that would make your laptop melt. If you think that brushing off the risk and mean of a combat soldier can be summed up as "Another fooled by the lies." followed by a roll-eye, then im afraid you need to go and research your knowledge of modern warfare (not the game) then come back and retune your attitude to how much British and allied countries personnel do to protect our country and world from the actions of these filthy animals. These scum are not soldiers of belief, they are insurgent's of hate and terror, and would think nothing of torturing your son/daughter, and hanging their limbs from a tree.

 

---------- Post added 08-11-2013 at 22:40 ----------

 

Ok harleyman. You've been there. Would you, once finding an enemy combatant in a field, discuss with your comrades what to do then decide after a bit of a chat, kill him?

 

How do you know how you would feel, depending on what had happened?

[megalithic]

You have no idea. I was happy, and still am to give up 17 years of my life to serve my country, and have seen horrors that would make your laptop melt. If you think that brushing off the risk and mean of a combat soldier can be summed up as "Another fooled by the lies." followed by a roll-eye, then im afraid you need to go and research your knowledge of modern warfare (not the game) then come back and retune your attitude to how much British and allied countries personnel do to protect our country and world from the actions of these filthy animals. These scum are not soldiers of belief, they are insurgent's of hate and terror, and would think nothing of torturing your son/daughter, and hanging their limbs from a tree.

 

I wonder if that came about as a result of us killing them, their women and children. ?

[tinfoilhat]

You have no idea. I was happy, and still am to give up 17 years of my life to serve my country, and have seen horrors that would make your laptop melt. If you think that brushing off the risk and mean of a combat soldier can be summed up as "Another fooled by the lies." followed by a roll-eye, then im afraid you need to go and research your knowledge of modern warfare (not the game) then come back and retune your attitude to how much British and allied countries personnel do to protect our country and world from the actions of these filthy animals. These scum are not soldiers of belief, they are insurgent's of hate and terror, and would think nothing of torturing your son/daughter, and hanging their limbs from a tree.

 

---------- Post added 08-11-2013 at 22:40 ----------

 

 

How do you know how you would feel, depending on what had happened?

 

It's fair(ish) question. Please understand I'm a civvie and NOT a member of arguably the best trained armed forces on the planet.

 

Tasked with searching a corn field for survivors I'd proceed quite cautiously. If I heard as much as a mouse fart I'd shoot in the general direction until what ever made the noise stopped making a noise. I'd have probably shot the guy (whether he was alive or dead) as an instinctive reaction to coming accross anything that wasn't corn. If something along those lines happened, there wouldn't be a case to answer. That didn't happen by a mile.

 

While you're here though, three questions back.

 

1. Would you have done the same?

2. Why was he even in court if everyone in the armed forces feels as you do?

3. If that isn't "the line", where is the line we shouldn't cross?

[bignasty]

It's fair(ish) question. Please understand I'm a civvie and NOT a member of arguably the best trained armed forces on the planet.

 

Tasked with searching a corn field for survivors I'd proceed quite cautiously. If I heard as much as a mouse fart I'd shoot in the general direction until what ever made the noise stopped making a noise. I'd have probably shot the guy (whether he was alive or dead) as an instinctive reaction to coming accross anything that wasn't corn. If something along those lines happened, there wouldn't be a case to answer. That didn't happen by a mile.

 

While you're here though, three questions back.

 

1. Would you have done the same?

2. Why was he even in court if everyone in the armed forces feels as you do?

3. If that isn't "the line", where is the line we shouldn't cross?

 

In a way, we are all civvies, its just that understanding the technicalities of it can be a minefield, no pun intended. The British Army are undoubtedly one of the best military outfits of this world, and it can be said that the Americans are of equal skill. I'm really trying to explain this marines thought process, rather than be his judge and juror. To the core, this was a terrible action to take, and should have been handled differently but we can never be privy to the facts of what he had personally experienced or had been bubbling around his head prior to the incident. Would I have done it? Well, if I had witnessed a barbaric action by this group in or around a relevant occurrence at the time, then I could probably assume that my feelings towards the insurgents would be pretty low, and to help the man wouldn't even cross my mind. The reason that it got to Court Martial is because todays military is under scrutiny by the British Army's very own police force, who have a duty to investigate anything that is deemed an offence, even under military law.

The line is not black and white when placed in such horrific circumstances, and the regret and remorse shown by these soldiers gives rise to the belief that in a situation of war, its difficult to actually contemplate just how bad these marines had been affected by their time in the zone.

[megalithic]

The line is not black and white when placed in such horrific circumstances, and the regret and remorse shown by these soldiers gives rise to the belief that in a situation of war, its difficult to actually contemplate just how bad these marines had been affected by their time in the zone.

 

That's probably the most pertinent paragraph in this whole discussion and has to be a mitigating factor. For the record if he's been given 20 years that's plain stupid imo. The rules of war should be equal, but they never are and some of the things he must have seen have to have had a bearing on this outcome.

 

It's a sad affair all round it seems.