Iran,US talks on Atomic Issues

[melthebell]

Israel may have assassinated a Hezbollah militant http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25211759

Edited December 4, 2013 by melthebell

[999tigger]

Sorry guys but some of you are so entrenched in your viewpoints that you arue like idiots with no logical connection to the points you are making.

 

Southcoast you are so keen to atack me with your anti Israel and anti US stuff you dont stop to think that I have no agenda. At least you are a bit more rational than xt500, slugger and the others.

 

If Iran wants to develop a bomb, then that is their business, althought it destabilises the region. They do have a difficulty in that they are signatories to the NPT so they should withdraw. XT 500 seems incapable of addressing that, but then his understanding of history is woeful.

 

If they then develop a bomb so be it, but they cant complain when other countries react accordingly based on their actions be it sanctions or otherwise. All I see is certain people wanting power and ordinary people suffering. Such a waste got the average Iranian. Meanwhile other countries move ahead.

[buck]

Irrespective of the casualties I must again emphasise that using intensive conventional as well as the A-Bombs was the only way to get Japan to surrender. They still had very large numbers of troops in Indo-China. Malaya, the Phillipines who were still fighting in August 1945 although their navy and air force were on their last legs.

 

I dare say you're earlier post giving reasons why Dresden should have been bombed are quite valid so I wont dispute that any further. I think you know more about Dresden than I do

 

Your grand parents generation were war weary by 1945, had suffered bombing by aircraft and V-1 and V-2 rockets, gone without anything decent in the way of consumer goods for five years and many had lost loved ones or seen loved ones come home crippled for life mentally and physically.

 

There wasn't a tear shed anywhere in Britain when the news came through that Japan had been finally forced to surrender. Their domination of south-east asia had been a cruel and brutal one preceded by atrocities on a large scale in China and Manchuria during the 1930s. Their treatment of allied POWs violated every rule set down in the Geneva Convention

 

In short the Japs got what they deserved. They sowed the seeds of war and reaped the whirlwind.

 

Modern history however teaches different. That a tear should be shed for the bestards. People have short memories and yesterday's heroes sometimes become todays villains and vice versa so I'm not surpised what I read from some on here

I probably am close to the almost unique today of having been a teenager at the time of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The saying "You had to have been there" would be appropriate. We had celebrated VE Day on April 8, 1945, but were still looking forward to years of blood and death in the Pacific, knowing how fiercely Japan would defend its Homeland, by studying the battle of Okinowa. When all of a sudden a mushroom cloud appeared over Hiroshima and thousands upon thousands were dead. We hoped that was that. Japan was called to surrender, with no response from their military rulers, so on August 9, my birthday, Nagasaki was bombed, and USS Missouri sailed into Tokyo with Douglas McArthur aboard to accept Japan's surrender. VJ day was as big a celebration as VE day. The death rate from those two raids was regrettable indeed, but far less than they would have been for ally and foe alike. A nuclear weapon has never been used in attack since, the possibility of one happening bears thinking about. Those who condemn should thank their lucky stars they were not born young enough to have been called upon to go out there to fight then. There's a lot of bravery available from behind a keyboard. Edited December 4, 2013 by buck

[Harleyman]

I probably am close to the almost unique today of having been a teenager at the time of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The saying "You had to have been there" would be appropriate. We had celebrated VE Day on April 8, 1945, but were still looking forward to years of blood and death in the Pacific, knowing how fiercely Japan would defend its Homeland, by studying the battle of Okinowa. When all of a sudden a mushroom cloud appeared over Hiroshima and thousands upon thousands were dead. We hoped that was that. Japan was called to surrender, with no response from their military rulers, so on August 9, my birthday, Nagasaki was bombed, and USS Missouri sailed into Tokyo with Douglas McArthur aboard to accept Japan's surrender. VJ day was as big a celebration as VE day. The death rate from those two raids was regrettable indeed, but far less than they would have been for ally and foe alike. A nuclear weapon has never been used in attack since, the possibility of one happening bears thinking about. Those who condemn should thank their lucky stars they were not born young enough to have been called upon to go out there to fight then. There's a lot of bravery available from behind a keyboard.

 

 

Those who were old enough to fight WW2 are rapidly dying off. The tour guide at Arlington National cemetery put the number at thousands per month.

 

In less than a decade there will be no one around who actually lived during those years as an adult. If their experiences were put on record then something survives but many returning servicemen never talked about the things they saw and experienced.

 

There were survivors of the Japanese POW camps when I was a young man.

Some told of the barbaric treatement the Japs handed out. A survivor who worked in the place I was employed at took the day off when it was announced that a Japanese trade delegation would be visiting the premises. Thousands of allied POWs alone died building the notorious Burma-Siam railway line.

 

Today those who teach history arent capable of getting any real perspective. They are revisonists and the worst kind of teacher is a revisonist who mingles his/her own personl believes and morality with the subject he or she teaches. The end result is that the student ends up being brainwashed instead of knowing the true down to earth facts

Edited December 4, 2013 by Harleyman

[southcoast]

Sorry guys but some of you are so entrenched in your viewpoints that you arue like idiots with no logical connection to the points you are making.

 

Southcoast you are so keen to atack me with your anti Israel and anti US stuff you dont stop to think that I have no agenda. At least you are a bit more rational than xt500, slugger and the others.

 

If Iran wants to develop a bomb, then that is their business, althought it destabilises the region. They do have a difficulty in that they are signatories to the NPT so they should withdraw. XT 500 seems incapable of addressing that, but then his understanding of history is woeful.

 

If they then develop a bomb so be it, but they cant complain when other countries react accordingly based on their actions be it sanctions or otherwise. All I see is certain people wanting power and ordinary people suffering. Such a waste got the average Iranian. Meanwhile other countries move ahead.

 

 

I am not attacking you at all,i have my view and you have another,its got nothing to do with you at all:)

My views stand,that Israel is a hipocrite and a rogue state,simple as that,they have no right to take the moral high ground.

[Phanerothyme]

If Israel did declare it's nuclear arsenal, and submit to inspections, agree to join in multilateral disarmament and generally behave like a responsible nuclear power, it would do much to ameliorate fears outside Israel that it may use its nuclear arsenal tactically and pre-emptively, and thus back away from seeking their own pre-emptive and retaliatory strike capabilities.

 

I can dream …

[999tigger]

If Israel did declare it's nuclear arsenal, and submit to inspections, agree to join in multilateral disarmament and generally behave like a responsible nuclear power, it would do much to ameliorate fears outside Israel that it may use its nuclear arsenal tactically and pre-emptively, and thus back away from seeking their own pre-emptive and retaliatory strike capabilities.

 

I can dream …

 

Nah we r cool south.

 

Phane I agree, but theres a reason they are the way they are unfortunately. Its a great shame they cant just get on and all this money could be used for ordinary people who would have better lives.

[slugger]

Those who were old enough to fight WW2 are rapidly dying off. The tour guide at Arlington National cemetery put the number at thousands per month.

 

In less than a decade there will be no one around who actually lived during those years as an adult. If their experiences were put on record then something survives but many returning servicemen never talked about the things they saw and experienced.

 

There were survivors of the Japanese POW camps when I was a young man.

Some told of the barbaric treatement the Japs handed out. A survivor who worked in the place I was employed at took the day off when it was announced that a Japanese trade delegation would be visiting the premises. Thousands of allied POWs alone died building the notorious Burma-Siam railway line.

 

Today those who teach history arent capable of getting any real perspective. They are revisonists and the worst kind of teacher is a revisonist who mingles his/her own personl believes and morality with the subject he or she teaches. The end result is that the student ends up being brainwashed instead of knowing the true down to earth facts

 

All your comments are used to justify using nuclear strikes in WW2.

 

The thing that bothers me is the fact that the US never really knew what the first A bomb was capable of when they unleashed it, but hey someone had to try it out. A bigger bomb again 3 days later and achieved the goal (surrender).

 

Now, ( I think ) I can understand the reasons behind this, but they never understood fully what they were unleashing (and didn't care).

 

America proved to the world, the destructive properties of nuclear warfare, that is why other countries immediately followed suit, to defend themselves.

 

Can't blame countries for that.

 

Now with Iran, having seen 2 gulf wars and Afghanistan, is it unreasonable that they should want to defend themselves ?

[Jeffrey Shaw]

Now with Iran, having seen 2 gulf wars and Afghanistan, is it unreasonable that they should want to defend themselves ?

Against whom? No-one is threatening Iran with extinction or demanding that all Iranian land be handed-back to some mythical populus.

[slugger]

All your comments are used to justify using nuclear strikes in WW2.

 

The thing that bothers me is the fact that the US never really knew what the first A bomb was capable of when they unleashed it, but hey someone had to try it out. A bigger bomb again 3 days later and achieved the goal (surrender).

 

Now, ( I think ) I can understand the reasons behind this, but they never understood fully what they were unleashing (and didn't care).

 

America proved to the world, the destructive properties of nuclear warfare, that is why other countries immediately followed suit, to defend themselves.

 

Can't blame countries for that.

 

Now with Iran, having seen 2 gulf wars and Afghanistan, is it unreasonable that they should want to defend themselves ?

 

Talking of all bombings being indiscriminate how can you say that when you unleash an A bomb with unknown results ?

 

---------- Post added 04-12-2013 at 21:47 ----------

 

Against whom? No-one is threatening Iran with extinction or demanding that all Iranian land be handed-back to some mythical populus.

 

The eyes of the world are on Iran, and they ain't done owt wrong yet ?.

 

Now Sheffield Forum are on their case, they better watch out ! We don't stand for sh-t

Edited December 4, 2013 by slugger