chalga Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 They don't need to offer a living wage because they can employ an immigrant. Its immigration that is keeping wages low and unemployment high. Even if there was no immigration,if a job will not pay a living wage for a UK person,and benefits are a viable way and means of living as an alternative,they will choose benefits,immigrants don't set pay rates,businesses do.Many businessmen have come out and said that they have advertised a job in the UK and had no takers or completely unsuitable applicants,so they have looked abroad to recruit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 It doesn't work like that. Besides businesses prefer to barely cope in running, employing one person who can't actually manage but gets work done at an acceptable rate, usually the bare minimum, instead of employing the three people needed to get the job done efficiently and on time. That sounds like how a badly run business works. A well run business wants the work done efficiently and on time because that actually makes it more money. Having stressed, over worked, and thus under productive and unhappy staff doesn't benefit the business in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Not at all, the argument I was addressing was one which suggested that if immigrants weren't here and enabling British employers to maintain low wages (assuming they are) that wages would be higher. That's only the case if the demand for products and services is inelastic. Are you saying that fewer people available for the existing vacancies wouldn't increase salaries? I'm trying get my head around what it is you're saying...sorry,it's been a long working week for some.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 You are confusing me stating a fact with pointing the finger at immigrants, and the local coffee shop or fact food outlet doesn't have competition from countries who have well motivated individuals and lower labour costs. The local coffee shop doesn't exist in it's own microsystem, it relies on customers who rely on income from their employers who generally aren't insulated from the effects of competition. What it does have is a supply of cheap labour which means there is no need to pay a living wage. What's the average price for a cup of coffee? What do you think the effect on demand would be if the price increased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Even if there was no immigration,if a job will not pay a living wage for a UK person,and benefits are a viable way and means of living as an alternative,they will choose benefits,immigrants don't set pay rates,businesses do.Many businessmen have come out and said that they have advertised a job in the UK and had no takers or completely unsuitable applicants,so they have looked abroad to recruit. That's just the point though..if they couldn't look abroad to recruit then they'd have to up their wages to get the positions filled...I think that's the point that daneha was making..- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daneha Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 You raised the supply & demand issue truman, high unemployment doesn't create demand for products and services, it's the other way round. Exactly, so encouraging high unemployment by encouraging high levels of immigration is counter productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Even if there was no immigration,if a job will not pay a living wage for a UK person,and benefits are a viable way and means of living as an alternative,they will choose benefits,immigrants don't set pay rates,businesses do.Many businessmen have come out and said that they have advertised a job in the UK and had no takers or completely unsuitable applicants,so they have looked abroad to recruit. The entire point of the new universal benefits system is to change the system in such a way that doing some work, or some more work, will always result in a net increase in income. The marginal tax rate, including the reduction in benefits should always be significantly < than 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Are you saying that fewer people available for the existing vacancies wouldn't increase salaries? I'm trying get my head around what it is you're saying... Im saying that my view relates to where the labour force is artificially restricted because our competition who don't restrict the labour supply will have much lower costs of production and make their products cheaper than ours. You can imagine what a Chinese or Indian business owner would think if his competition was paying their workforce more than he was...he'd be rubbing his hands together. sorry,it's been a long working week for some.. I'm certainly not looking forward to Monday fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daneha Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 The local coffee shop doesn't exist in it's own microsystem, it relies on customers who rely on income from their employers who generally aren't insulated from the effects of competition. What's the average price for a cup of coffee? What do you think the effect on demand would be if the price increased? You assume increasing the wage will result in increased product price, it is just as likely to result in lower profit or even lower rental costs. An empty shop doesn't generate money for the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Exactly, so encouraging high unemployment by encouraging high levels of immigration is counter productive. I'm not sure that high levels of immigration are being 'encouraged', but I do know we wouldn't be competitive with higher wage costs which would result in higher unemployment anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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