Blunkett - Influx of Roma migrants could cause riots.

[daneha]

Yes,I provided the evidence to back up what i am claiming,what i am asking for are your facts,backed up by research to support what you are saying.

 

You already provided it, you claimed without immigration there would have still been an increase in employment of 2%, this would have cut unemployment, but we did have immigration and this increased the population so unemployment also went up.

 

---------- Post added 03-01-2014 at 23:18 ----------

 

I'm not saying to build social housing for immigrants,i am saying build them for everybody.

So what you are claiming then,is that the UK is not providing enough food or fuel for the population resulting in inflation,and it's all down to immigrants driving up the demand for them.I wonder why the power utilitiesdon't come up with that excuse when they are driving up their prices and causing increases in the cost of living..........it's the immigrants,LOL,demanding more power than we can supply.

 

Its down to the population being to high for the size of the country, and immigration increases it more than it would otherwise increase.

 

Utility companies do say it, they tell you that when demand is high prices rise, and demand is high because there are more people than they can comfortably supply.

[cressida]

We can't do anything about the influx anyway unless we leave the EU, personally I would rather any resources went to aid the Syrian refugees.

 

Is there or was there ever a 'Temporary Refugee' status, in that the refugees in this country were obliged to return to their own country once it was safe?

[chalga]

You already provided it, you claimed without immigration there would have still been an increase in employment of 2%, this would have cut unemployment, but we did have immigration and this increased the population so unemployment also went up.

 

 

But what i am asking you for are the facts and figures from research that claim any rise in unemployment was a direct result of immigration,like you are claiming,it could be down to loads of different reasons,just saying that it's because of immigration doesn't make it true.

[oooo]

But what i am asking you for are the facts and figures from research that claim any rise in unemployment was a direct result of immigration,like you are claiming,it could be down to loads of different reasons,just saying that it's because of immigration doesn't make it true.

 

Chal, we had a great debate yesterday about this, but however intricate it gets, there will always be two sides. One person thinks one thing, and another thinks something completely opposite. Im against it, as you know, and you are not. I can see your side, and I hope you prove me wrong. Until that happens, where else can we go with it?

[poppet2]

 

Your argument is contradictory.

 

You say Immigrants that work here on minimum wages contribute to taxes and still have plenty of money to send home, but if a British worker does the same job for the same money they won't have anything left at the end of the month, presumably they will still pay tax and spend all the money in the UK therefor helping our economy to grow which in turn will help to pay your pension.

 

I fail to see why you state my argument is contradictory.

Immigrants that look for work elsewhere whether they be from the UK or any other country, normally look for the following criteria:

a. a country where there is work

b. a country that pays better wages then they currently receive at home

 

The fact that a Brit ends up with next to nothing at the end of the month is because he lives in a house with high rent/mortgage costs and has utility bills to pay. This is the price you pay when you live in a country permanently, as opposed to just passing through as a economic migrant who is just happy to sleep 6 to a room for 9 months. This is no difference to what UK workers did in Germany in the 80s.

 

Oh, and one other point, anyone that pays taxes contributes to this country's economy. Their taxes go to building roads, schools, hospitals, houses, etc.

What the government decides to spend or not to spend our taxes on is their affair. By paying tax, immigrants are contributing to this country.

[chalga]

 

Its down to the population being to high for the size of the country, and immigration increases it more than it would otherwise increase.

 

Utility companies do say it, they tell you that when demand is high prices rise, and demand is high because there are more people than they can comfortably supply.

 

But where are the fuel and food shortages?...........I haven't heard that people are starving because there is not enough food available,or that people can't drive things anywhere because there is no fuel.I've never heard any utility company saying that they are not up to the job of supplying the needs of the UK simply because there are too many people.

 

---------- Post added 03-01-2014 at 23:36 ----------

 

Chal, we had a great debate yesterday about this, but however intricate it gets, there will always be two sides. One person thinks one thing, and another thinks something completely opposite. Im against it, as you know, and you are not. I can see your side, and I hope you prove me wrong. Until that happens, where else can we go with it?

 

Of course there will always be 2 sides,all you can do is to put what you think in a sensible way and back it up with facts that have been well researched,that's what I try to do anyway,opinions are ok,but somewhere along the line,you have to come up with hard facts.It is possible to show figures that support one argument and also support the opposite,but i guess that is part of the fun of thedebate

[poppet2]

 

Its down to the population being to high for the size of the country, and immigration increases it more than it would otherwise increase.

 

Utility companies do say it, they tell you that when demand is high prices rise, and demand is high because there are more people than they can comfortably supply.

 

Wrong. Utility companies have stated that due to the increase in power we are using as a result of computer and other electrical gadgets we are using in the home and offices compared to 15-20 years ago, demand has increased.

A typical example, in the office a few secretaries has a type writer, now everybody in the office has a computer at work and in the home. The demand for large flat TVs has increased and computer game gadgets and charging mobile phones etc.

All these things were unheard of years ago.

[chalga]

You already provided it, you claimed without immigration there would have still been an increase in employment of 2%, this would have cut unemployment, but we did have immigration and this increased the population so unemployment also went up.

 

 

This is what I am talking about:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/immigration-does-not-cause-unemployment-6287404.html

 

 

 

There is no link between rising immigration and rising unemployment, independent economists have found – contradicting persistent claims from anti-immigration activists and politicians that an influx of foreign nationals into the UK in recent years has led to more British-born workers on the dole.

[poppet2]

By importing more future pensioners, which will need more immigrants to pay for them who will also become pensioners, which will need more immigrants to pay for them who will also become pensioners, which will need more immigrants to pay for them who will also become pensioners, which will need more immigrants to pay for them who will also become pensioners, which will need more immigrants to pay for them who will also become pensioners.........

 

But what difference does that make? Years ago before we had immigrants our population continued to grow year on year. Now our birth rate has declined we need immigrants to work to contribute towards our taxes & current, let alone future pensions.

[daneha]

But what i am asking you for are the facts and figures from research that claim any rise in unemployment was a direct result of immigration,like you are claiming,it could be down to loads of different reasons,just saying that it's because of immigration doesn't make it true.

 

I will make it very easy to understand for you.

 

Two groups of people living 100 mils apart.

 

lets call them A and B

 

Group A a is wealthy society with 1000 people of working age, 950 of them have jobs, with the other 50 receiving benefits paid for by the 950 workers.

 

 

Group B is a poorer society with 1000 people of working age, 500 of them have jobs and the other 500 live a very poor life.

 

Group A manage to create 50 new jobs and allow people from group B to immigrate. 250 people from group B decide to move to group A. But at the same time 50 people from Group A move to Group B.

 

 

Group A is still a wealthy society but now as 1200 people of working age, 1000 of them have jobs, with the other 200 receiving benefits paid for by the 1000 workers. So whilst employment as increased, unemployment as also increased and is now a bigger burden on the 1000 people that work.

 

Group B population as declined and even though they haven't created any jobs there are are fewer people out of work.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2014 at 07:39 ----------

 

I fail to see why you state my argument is contradictory.

Because you claimed we needed immigrant worker to pay our pension, and when I pointed out that our unemployed could take the jobs and pay our pensions, you then jumped in with, but they will be on low wages so won't be contributing enough. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

The fact that a Brit ends up with next to nothing at the end of the month is because he lives in a house with high rent/mortgage costs and has utility bills to pay.

So all the money that the British worker earns goes back into the UK economy, whilst some of the immigrant wages go into an other countries economy.

 

 

Oh, and one other point, anyone that pays taxes contributes to this country's economy. Their taxes go to building roads, schools, hospitals, houses, etc.

What the government decides to spend or not to spend our taxes on is their affair. By paying tax, immigrants are contributing to this country.

 

So its much better if someone unemployed and receives benefits takes the job and pays the tax, instead of someone that currently doesn't live here so isn't already a burden on the UK tax payer.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2014 at 07:43 ----------

 

But where are the fuel and food shortages?...........I haven't heard that people are starving because there is not enough food available,or that people can't drive things anywhere because there is no fuel.I've never heard any utility company saying that they are not up to the job of supplying the needs of the UK simply because there are too many people.

 

The UK imports it at great expense because we can't produce enough for our ever increasing population.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2014 at 07:46 ----------

 

Wrong. Utility companies have stated that due to the increase in power we are using as a result of computer and other electrical gadgets we are using in the home and offices compared to 15-20 years ago, demand has increased.

A typical example, in the office a few secretaries has a type writer, now everybody in the office has a computer at work and in the home. The demand for large flat TVs has increased and computer game gadgets and charging mobile phones etc.

All these things were unheard of years ago.

 

 

So increasing the population must therefor increase our usage, fewer people using computers and other electrical gadgets will use less power and be less of a problem for power companies.

60 million people using these things is easier to cope with than 70 million people using these thing.

 

 

By increasing the population we are simply making an already bad situation even worse.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2014 at 07:51 ----------

 

This is what I am talking about:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/immigration-does-not-cause-unemployment-6287404.html

 

 

 

There is no link between rising immigration and rising unemployment, independent economists have found – contradicting persistent claims from anti-immigration activists and politicians that an influx of foreign nationals into the UK in recent years has led to more British-born workers on the dole.

 

If you like, you are clearly never going to understand that increasing the number of people of working age, without matching that increase with job creation, will always increase unemployment.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2014 at 07:53 ----------

 

But what difference does that make? Years ago before we had immigrants our population continued to grow year on year. Now our birth rate has declined we need immigrants to work to contribute towards our taxes & current, let alone future pensions.

 

We only need immigrants if we don't have enough people to do the available jobs, and for now we have plenty of unemployed people, so have no need to increase the supply of workers.