Will self on the hijab

[caparo]

Don't call me an idiot as I can also chuck insults about you little twerp!

The op is about someone's opinion about the hijab and not about non Muslims being made to cover their heads or faces in backwards Muslim countries as you so eloquently put it.

 

It was you that tried to claim non muslims weren't free to pick the type of clothes they wear. I merely pointed to how stupid that claim was. I added the bit about non Muslim women being made to cover their heads or faces in backwards Muslim countries because it happens to be a fact, and one of the few instances where non muslims have to worry about how they choose to dress. The fact that this gets your back up shows that you know it to be true. If you can't stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

[Nagel]

you get other religions which also focus on minutiae. how many angels can fit on a pinhead for example.

 

I considered including exactly that phrase in my post.

 

'How many angels can fit on the head of a pin' was used as an example of the ridiculousness of mediaeval Christian scholasticism and as a metaphor for wasting time debating topics of no practical value or questions whose answers hold no intellectual consequence.

 

So, it's also a good metaphor for the Islamic obsession with discussing the minutiae of the rules of the religion. It all appears quite bonkers to someone who doesn't believe.

[melthebell]

It was you that tried to claim non muslims weren't free to pick the type of clothes they wear. I merely pointed to how stupid that claim was.

 

if you think about the claim sensibley it does make sense to a point, obviously we all go shopping and buy whatever clothes we want

BUT

isnt there an underlying force that tells women especially how they must look and act in this country?

tv and newspapers and magazines are awash with it and also get criticised for it, women are brainwashed into needing to be that size or else, buy that brand or else, wear that make up, it seems odd when a woman doesnt wear make up and almost becomes a freak

with men, its all bare chests and muscles on tv and in the magazines, we're all expected to look like david beckham et al

[WeX]

That is simply your (incorrect) view.

 

The Qu'ran does not force anyone to do anything and leaves the choice to the individual- so stop making up what you only perceive to be 'true' (i.e. see some Muslims doing something and think; THAT IS ISLAM).

 

What does the Qu'ran actually say?

 

There is no compulsion in religion. 2:256

 

hadith: First, a woman’s body should be covered such that only her face, hands, and feet are revealed. Secondly, the clothing must be loose enough so that the shape of a woman’s body is not visible.

Whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. 18:29

 

Quran 9:29

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

 

Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. 109:6

 

No chance, if I see you oppressing people I will speak out and you have no right to silence me. That is the way in Most Islamic countries but it is not the way in our nation.

 

I can also quote Quran verses until the cows come home if you like, but this one is probably the most poignant:

 

Quran 4:34

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

 

Err..nuns?

 

Correct, Nuns choose to cover themselves to differing degrees. But they do not cover themselves in the same manner as those who choose to ver all with garments such as the Burka.

 

Then as I have said before, its numbers, can you say when you last saw a nun? While the rise of islamic dress is very easy to see in public view.

 

Nuns are dwindling in number and tend to dress and go about their business behind closed doors, of their own choosing. Women in Islam are being told how to dress by their peers and their community and their number is on the rise.

 

 

Why do you regard your point of view or that of a particular society as the criterion for judging other societies or people?

 

As Islam is not part of the British or western society and has been brought to our shores by people wishing to come and work, live and raise families within our culture, it is easy consider our culture is superior to that of these cultures being left behind, otherwise why leave?

 

 

Many Western born and educated Muslim women observe an Islamic dress- what they see as their view of how modesty is or ought to be. Just go to a few Universities and see for yourself- are these young educated girls forced to wear the modest coverings?

 

Why don't you go and conduct a survey- ask them. Oh yeah- and one more thing, they are not all brown skinned..

 

One word "indoctrination" Traints you also appear to be expressing.

[Anna Glypta]

if you think about the claim sensibley it does make sense to a point, obviously we all go shopping and buy whatever clothes we want

BUT

isnt there an underlying force that tells women especially how they must look and act in this country?

tv and newspapers and magazines are awash with it and also get criticised for it, women are brainwashed into needing to be that size or else, buy that brand or else, wear that make up, it seems odd when a woman doesnt wear make up and almost becomes a freak

with men, its all bare chests and muscles on tv and in the magazines, we're all expected to look like david beckham et al

 

Do you look like David Beckham then???

[melthebell]

Do you look like David Beckham then???

 

whats with the personal replys today? been missing me?

[Anna Glypta]

whats with the personal replys today? been missing me?

 

I'll take it that you don't look like David Beckham then. So your analogy was total cobblers. Is it another thrilling day in Whitby then mel?

[*Belle*]

There's a tradition in all Abrahamic religions (including Christianity) that women cover their heads. As well as Muslim women, Catholic and Jewish women continue to follow that custom to varying degrees.

 

This is what Corinthians says

 

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

 

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

______________________

 

I have no view one way or the other, live and let live. But surely the text above states (to paraphrase) "When praying..." not when shopping in the Asda.

[boyfriday]

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

 

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

______________________

 

I have no view one way or the other, live and let live. But surely the text above states (to paraphrase) "When praying..." not when shopping in the Asda.

 

I can't recall seeing many Christian women with their head covered whilst shopping in ASDA, apart from the odd nun.

 

Ps I dont normally see Christian women with their head covered whilst worshipping either for that matter.

[melthebell]

I'll take it that you don't look like David Beckham then. So your analogy was total cobblers. Is it another thrilling day in Whitby then mel?

i never said i looked like david beckham, and so it looks like you dont want to believe what i posted might have some truth in it

as usual all you want to do is cause an arguement