Phanerothyme Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Do we really need to do these stupid tests that prove nothing?!? The bottom line is; driving is easy, it should be portrayed as such. If you're the type of person that panics or feels distracted by something as simple as a two way conversation, then you should turn your phone off. If, on the other hand, you're a normal person, who is capable of doing 2 or more things at once and judging your own safety levels, then you should be alowed to drive while talking, smoking, itching your bum, or whatever they'll try to ban next! I don't know why you insist on making this about me. I've never said anything about my driving or using a phone. I've pointed to the fact that in spite of these studies, there isn't any evidence of a significant problem like there was with drink driving. If you don't believe that using a mobile phone impairs your driving ability at all, and don't understand that there's a continuum of driver distraction rather than a binary state of distracted/not distracted, then that's your problem and not the fault of "the stupid tests". The "stupid tests" show the difference in driver distraction between all the things (apart from bum scratching) you mentioned. The evidence is out there, and there's nothing to suggest it's bad data. Unless you know of contradictory research? I don't know whose posts you have been reading to get the impression I want to ban anything. I've said three or more times that banning stuff is rarely the solution to anything. You appear to be simply blowing off, and not actually comprehending the posts you claim to reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Ralge Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 How is driving with a hands free kit more dangerous than driving whilst talking to a passenger? Listening to and faffing with a sat nav? How much does a radio get in the way ? I'm not saying break are wrong I'm just wondering how much of a risk hands free phone calls are compared with the above. The passenger may or may not be as distracting. But he/she may have some road sense, back off from asking curved-ball questions and act as an extra pair of eyes on the road ahead. He/she can also read the driver's body language (hold on while I work out where I'm going/shush kids) and back off a little. The person on the other end of the phone has no such body language. Drivers regularly admit to missing a m/w turn whilst phoning. Hands-free is not a great deal safer than hand-held judging by the research findings. Hand-held, although illegal, is no big deal (unless you are changing gear and negotiating a r'bout) - it involves driving with just one hand and loads of drivers manage quite easily with just one hand. Any distraction is bad. Phone use just adds to the list of distractions and, with the massive increase in their use, the Govt saw fit to draw a line somewhere. They took the easy option (no surprise there) and banned hand-held. More than a few companies are banning hands-free use and limiting their exposure to what they consider as an undoubted and unnecessary risk for their fleet. Managing distractions and giving as much attention to the task of driving as is possible is a good starting point for the most dangerous thing most of us do on a daily basis. The physical control of driving is, indeed, easy and in no way physically demanding. Trained, expert drivers have excellent vehicle handling skills but in addition: - work on increasing their focus and levels of concentration, - actively seek out information as to what hazards lie ahead and behind/around, - ask themselves what they can and can't see and what they might reasonably expect to happen - they don't accept "suddenly" happens - have a plan for retention of space and time and to keep moving through hazards. I suggest they are bound to fall short on one or more of these if they allow themselves to be distracted. An exercise for anyone: Write on a piece of paper the letters A to J, but all jumbled up on the paper. Then, point to A and say "A" and so on all the way to J. Then, do the same again J to A Easy then more difficult? How about A to J but, this time, with the number sequence 100, 95 etc in-between the letter sequence. Up a letter but down 5 ... Any difficulty you find in the third exercise is due to "dual task interference" and mirrors what happens when anyone asks you a difficult, curved-ball question (and you don't see them coming) whilst you are driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo77 Posted November 19, 2013 Author Share Posted November 19, 2013 I don't know why you insist on making this about me. I've never said anything about my driving or using a phone. I've pointed to the fact that in spite of these studies, there isn't any evidence of a significant problem like there was with drink driving. If you don't believe that using a mobile phone impairs your driving ability at all, and don't understand that there's a continuum of driver distraction rather than a binary state of distracted/not distracted, then that's your problem and not the fault of "the stupid tests". The "stupid tests" show the difference in driver distraction between all the things (apart from bum scratching) you mentioned. The evidence is out there, and there's nothing to suggest it's bad data. Unless you know of contradictory research? I don't know whose posts you have been reading to get the impression I want to ban anything. I've said three or more times that banning stuff is rarely the solution to anything. You appear to be simply blowing off, and not actually comprehending the posts you claim to reading? It's not about you, don't flatter yourself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Then ease up on the personal pronoun eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcoblog Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 The passenger may or may not be as distracting. But he/she may have some road sense, back off from asking curved-ball questions and act as an extra pair of eyes on the road ahead. He/she can also read the driver's body language (hold on while I work out where I'm going/shush kids) and back off a little. The person on the other end of the phone has no such body language. Drivers regularly admit to missing a m/w turn whilst phoning. Hands-free is not a great deal safer than hand-held judging by the research findings. Hand-held, although illegal, is no big deal (unless you are changing gear and negotiating a r'bout) - it involves driving with just one hand and loads of drivers manage quite easily with just one hand. Any distraction is bad. Phone use just adds to the list of distractions and, with the massive increase in their use, the Govt saw fit to draw a line somewhere. They took the easy option (no surprise there) and banned hand-held. More than a few companies are banning hands-free use and limiting their exposure to what they consider as an undoubted and unnecessary risk for their fleet. Managing distractions and giving as much attention to the task of driving as is possible is a good starting point for the most dangerous thing most of us do on a daily basis. The physical control of driving is, indeed, easy and in no way physically demanding. Trained, expert drivers have excellent vehicle handling skills but in addition: - work on increasing their focus and levels of concentration, - actively seek out information as to what hazards lie ahead and behind/around, - ask themselves what they can and can't see and what they might reasonably expect to happen - they don't accept "suddenly" happens - have a plan for retention of space and time and to keep moving through hazards. I suggest they are bound to fall short on one or more of these if they allow themselves to be distracted. An exercise for anyone: Write on a piece of paper the letters A to J, but all jumbled up on the paper. Then, point to A and say "A" and so on all the way to J. Then, do the same again J to A Easy then more difficult? How about A to J but, this time, with the number sequence 100, 95 etc in-between the letter sequence. Up a letter but down 5 ... Any difficulty you find in the third exercise is due to "dual task interference" and mirrors what happens when anyone asks you a difficult, curved-ball question (and you don't see them coming) whilst you are driving. Surely doing this whilst driving is even more dangerous than texting, never mind 'hands free' ... a sure fire way to end up the progenator of a multi car pile up if you ask me! Never mind looking for A to J ... more like looking for A and E. It'd be much safer to use your mobile to Google 'A to J' rather than working it out on a bit of paper, whilst at the same time negotiating an overtaking manoeuvre. I'm certainly not surprised you'll find difficulty doing the third exercise, as by that time you'll be unconscious in the back of an ambulance having open heart massage and what's left of your legs being stitched back on. Never heard such rubbish from someone who's supposed to be telling us about road safety! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Ralge Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Surely doing this whilst driving is even more dangerous than texting, never mind 'hands free' ... a sure fire way to end up the progenator of a multi car pile up if you ask me! Never mind looking for A to J ... more like looking for A and E. It'd be much safer to use your mobile to Google 'A to J' rather than working it out on a bit of paper, whilst at the same time negotiating an overtaking manoeuvre. I'm certainly not surprised you'll find difficulty doing the third exercise, as by that time you'll be unconscious in the back of an ambulance having open heart massage and what's left of your legs being stitched back on. Never heard such rubbish from someone who's supposed to be telling us about road safety! Very drôle. Try this simple (brain/cognitive multi-tasking) exercise away from the car, but then you knew that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcoblog Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Very drôle. Try this simple (brain/cognitive multi-tasking) exercise away from the car, but then you knew that. How was I supposed to know that when you wrote this; 'Any difficulty you find in the third exercise is due to "dual task interference" and mirrors what happens when anyone asks you a difficult, curved-ball question (and you don't see them coming) whilst you are driving.' (I've used crayon to colour in the salient bit ) ................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Ralge Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 How was I supposed to know that when you wrote this; 'Any difficulty you find in the third exercise is due to "dual task interference" and mirrors what happens when anyone asks you a difficult, curved-ball question (and you don't see them coming) whilst you are driving.' (I've used crayon to colour in the salient bit ) ................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Clearly, my words confused. Maybe I could have expressed it better: One situation: you are sat comfortably at your desk. Try this simple exercise ... Reflect on the difficulty you have/had in doing this. The difficulty can be put down to dual task interference. Ask yourself whether this difficulty could be mirrored in a different situation I.e. when taking/making a phone call whilst driving with someone who throws you a curved-ball question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzo77 Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Clearly, my words confused. Maybe I could have expressed it better: One situation: you are sat comfortably at your desk. Try this simple exercise ... Reflect on the difficulty you have/had in doing this. The difficulty can be put down to dual task interference. Ask yourself whether this difficulty could be mirrored in a different situation I.e. when taking/making a phone call whilst driving with someone who throws you a curved-ball question. I think everyone is missing the point here?! In said situation, you (should) still have both eyes on the road, both hands on the wheel, both feet at the end of both of your legs..........what more do you need in order to operate a car?? Yes, you may be slightly distracted, but you should still be in control of your car. If you are distracted to the point where you can't control your car, there's clearly something wrong! Distractions happen all the time. Radio, scenery.....I don't know about you, but I can't help but look at that new wind farm where the M18 starts! They are far more distracting than someone talking to me. Oh, buy the way. Just in case you think like Phanerothyme; when I say you, I don't necessarily mean you, I'm just discribing a situation from first person perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Ralge Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I think everyone is missing the point here?! In said situation, you (should) still have both eyes on the road, both hands on the wheel, both feet at the end of both of your legs..........what more do you need in order to operate a car?? Yes, you may be slightly distracted, but you should still be in control of your car. If you are distracted to the point where you can't control your car, there's clearly something wrong! Distractions happen all the time. Radio, scenery.....I don't know about you, but I can't help but look at that new wind farm where the M18 starts! They are far more distracting than someone talking to me. Oh, buy the way. Just in case you think like Phanerothyme; when I say you, I don't necessarily mean you, I'm just discribing a situation from first person perspective. Distractions come in two forms: - physical (looking away from the road ahead at the wind farm, operating buttons on radio, phone etc - cognitive - the process where you may well be looking straight ahead but not processing the information as well as you can for reasons of fatigue, mind transported elsewhere by stressors, autopilot or by dual task interference - or a combination of the two A mobile phone conversation scores as a "distraction" on all three. The banning of hand held use only addresses the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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