Yorkshire multi-millionaire businessman backs UKIP

[retep]

Not at all, on the contrary I am very familiar with the anti-EU rethoric. The problem is that it is, indeed, rethoric: big on vague statistics and loud numbers, and fundamentally lacking in verifiable facts.

What are the factual bases for these soundbites?

What are the factual bases for these soundbites?

What are the factual bases for these soundbites?

Now that, I can confirm to you right now, is complete and utter bollotox. Read the Treaty, the latest consolidated version is here.

 

Here's Article 3(4):

Lofty ideals indeed. Where is the "constitutional obligation" to "negotiate “free and fair trade” with non-EU countries"?

 

Here's Article 8:

Where is the "constitutional obligation" to "negotiate “free and fair trade” with non-EU countries"?

 

Have a look at Article 50, governing exit from the EU. It's bigger than 8 (though not much more)...but here's a preview anyway: there's nothing about any "constitutional obligation" to "negotiate “free and fair trade” with non-EU countries" either.

LOL. Bless

 

Perhaps a lack of understanding on your behalf,

 

I'll stick with the article and it's authors.

[LeMaquis]

Your speaking of a mining community where most of the voters are labour.

 

You said Sykes knew a lot about the working man of Cudworth. I merely pointed out the working man of Cudworth was not interested in Sykes' understanding of them. If you can't accept reality you'll fit right in in UKIP.

 

And Cudworth a mining community? Who says UKIP aren't stuck in the past.

 

---------- Post added 21-11-2013 at 17:57 ----------

 

"Less that 10% of the British economy is involved with trade with the EU......

 

50% of UK trade is with the EU. Do you think that by telling lies everyone will vote UKIP?

[retep]

You said Sykes knew a lot about the working man of Cudworth. I merely pointed out the working man of Cudworth was not interested in Sykes' understanding of them. If you can't accept reality you'll fit right in in UKIP.

 

And Cudworth a mining community? Who says UKIP aren't stuck in the past.

 

---------- Post added 21-11-2013 at 17:57 ----------

 

 

50% of UK trade is with the EU. Do you think that by telling lies everyone will vote UKIP?

 

 

Do you know the difference between trade and economy?

[Doom]

50% of UK trade is with the EU. Do you think that by telling lies everyone will vote UKIP?

 

Is the 50% the amount of our exports that go to Europe, as opposed to the size of our Economy?

 

Regards

 

Doom

 

Edit: Just seen retep's post above.

 

---------- Post added 21-11-2013 at 19:20 ----------

 

No doubt in the next months and years ahead there's going to be a lot of scaremongering with regards to UKIP (we've already seen some on here), whether that be about wasting votes to let in party X,Y,Z or they won't be able to run the economy or there are connections with the far right or.....

 

I'd better add collapse of trade to Europe to my list of scaremongering.

 

Nobody knows what would happen to our overseas trade if we pulled out of Europe, because it's all guesswork and speculation.

 

If the Politicians and Economists are all so smart, they would have been pro-active to prevent the credit crunch happening, rather than reactive afterwards.

 

With a bit of luck if we pull out of Europe it will encourage others to follow suit and then we could have a trading agreement with Europe without all the unpleasant add-ons like open borders, paying for MEP's, European Court of Human Rights etc.

 

Regards

 

Doom

[LeMaquis]

Do you know the difference between trade and economy?

 

Yes. I was pointing out that 50% of out trade was with the EU. You used the whole economy figure as a red herring to try and play down the fact that 50% of our trade is with the EU. I'd imagine that most economic activity in the UK is with other parts of the UK and therefore has nothing to do with whether we should be in the EU or not. In any case people who think we should leave the EU argue we can trade with other parts of the world more. So we should be discussing trade, not the whole economy if the debate is about the EU.

 

---------- Post added 21-11-2013 at 19:31 ----------

 

If the Politicians and Economists are all so smart, they would have been pro-active to prevent the credit crunch happening, rather than reactive afterwards.

 

So you're admitting there'll be a credit crunch if we leave the EU. I'm sure people will vote for that.

[retep]

Yes. I was pointing out that 50% of out trade was with the EU. You used the whole economy figure as a red herring to try and play down the fact that 50% of our trade is with the EU. I'd imagine that most economic activity in the UK is with other parts of the UK and therefore has nothing to do with whether we should be in the EU or not. In any case people who think we should leave the EU argue we can trade with other parts of the world more. So we should be discussing trade, not the whole economy if the debate is about the EU.

 

---------- Post added 21-11-2013 at 19:31 ----------

 

 

So you're admitting there'll be a credit crunch if we leave the EU. I'm sure people will vote for that.

 

I used nothing as a red herring, but nice to see one wriggling:hihi:

[LeMaquis]

I used nothing as a red herring, but nice to see one wriggling:hihi:

 

Ah but you did. By saying that less than 10% of the UK economy is to do with the EU you're just quoting the figure of 10% in order to downplay the UK's dependence of the EU. If you'd said 50% of UK trade is with the EU you'd be highlighting the relevant figure.

 

You're obviously unaware that during a referendum campaign that figure of 50% will be quoted again and again and again, as will the number of UK jobs reliant on EU trade, etc.

 

You think you're clever but during a referendum campaign - and even before it - you're arguments are going to be exposed for the right-wing distortion they are.

[dosxuk]

With a bit of luck if we pull out of Europe it will encourage others to follow suit and then we could have a trading agreement with Europe without all the unpleasant add-ons like open borders, paying for MEP's, European Court of Human Rights etc.

 

You really think leaving the EU would mean we wouldn't be paying people to negotiate with the EU in Brussels (only now they wouldn't have a vote), as well as cause us to abandon all human rights legislation?

[tzijlstra]

This debate is endless, there will always be people for and against, whatever the people for say, the people against will refute and in reverse. The EU has got plenty of issues to work out still, a solid democratic process is one of many issues to iron out.

 

But before you go and vote UKIP, just think about this: you do realise that NOT A SINGLE UKIP MEP showed up for the vote to stop the EU alternating its meetings between Brussels and Strassbourg? You do realise that hero Farage hardly ever shows up to MEP parliaments since being elected, yet he sits in his mansion in wherevershire earning a nice income that your taxes are paying for?

 

Voting for UKIP is voting no. I get the appeal in that, but it is also a vote for NO policy, for NO influence, for NO choice.

[dosxuk]

Voting for UKIP is voting no. I get the appeal in that, but it is also a vote for NO policy, for NO influence, for NO choice.

 

Exactly. Vote UKIP in the general election, where UKIP might actually have a chance to enact some of their policies, but voting UKIP to not bother representing you in the European election is just wasting your vote and wasting all of us money.

 

As for the "voting UKIP in the European elections will send a message to the other parties", will it heck. They know full well that UKIP are basically guaranteed seats in the European elections because of PR vs FPTP. Unless some of their prized Westminster seats get taken away from them they won't care. Especially when come general election time, not a single UKIP member gets elected, while Farage ends up in a plane crash and a punch up.