dosxuk Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 So no EU states trade with states outside the EU? They don't trade with China, Korea, Japan, India, Brazil, USA etc etc. The reality is all EU states DO trade with non-EU states. That's not what I was saying. And if you think trade with companies from outside the EU is just as easy as within the EU you are either inexperience or deluded. Even for the general public, it's much easier to deal with EU based companies. EU states might have to put contracts out to tender to other EU states, it doesn't exclude non-EU states. Did you not see the news last week? Guess which country will be building us new nuclear reactors. China (as well as some EU states). The point is that the EU members have to allow all other EU members to bid on big tenders. If you're not in the EU, you don't have that automatic right. I would want a skilled workforce geographically close to the target market. Leaving the EU doesn't untether us from the European continental tectonic plate so we'll not float off into the middle of the Atlantic, so no worries there. Workforce has nothing to do with it. Inside the EU, taxes are aligned, trade is freer, and life is generally easier. Once you're outside that block, you have more work to do for the same end result. Another outlandish claim. We are not suddenly going to start requiring VISAs for travel between UK and EU states. Hang on though, isn't one of UKIP's big things about ending the open borders agreement? Either you have open borders (with right of refusal of entry) like we do now, or you have a visa scheme to allow foreigners into the country after you approve it. There is no middle ground. If you're saying that the UK is going to have a visa-waiver scheme for all EU countries, granting right of abode to anyone in the EU (with right of refusal of entry retained), then that's just the status-quo, and completely invalidates everything that UKIP is complaining about with immigration. Much as you want us to believe it, there will not be mass sackings of English workers on the continent, there will not be mass sackings of Europeans working in the UK, there will not be forced deportations and repatriations. If EU members lose the ability to freely travel, work and live in the UK, do you think that the EU would grant that right to people from the UK travelling/working/living there? We're not talking about the people going to Spain for a two week holiday, who would just have their passports checked just like now, and go there on a visa-waiver, just like you can do to the US, New Zealand and Egypt. I'm talking about those who want to live and work in another country needing visa's, which for UK residents, currently means just about anywhere else on the planet apart from the EU. ---------- Post added 21-11-2013 at 21:58 ---------- I'm sure we would pay people, but I suspect there would be far fewer on the gravy train (Kinnock family etc). Like Farage and the rest of the UKIP MEPs? As for human rights, I'd rather let the British courts deal with British human rights using the British legal system. Just as they currently do then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 So what's to be afraid of? UKIP are the only party willing to put an unconditional vote on the EU to the people. Bring it on. ^^^^^ This. This is far too important an issue to be just left to the politicians. Let's have the debate and then let the people vote on it. If the vote is in favour of staying in Europe so be it, but let the population decide. Regards Doom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Hang on a minute... According to the pro-UKIP camp: We are not suddenly going to start requiring VISAs for travel between UK and EU states. - so no change to immigration As for human rights, I'd rather let the British courts deal with British human rights using the British legal system. - so no change to human rights law What I'm saying is that EU export trade with the UK is greater than the UK's export trade with the EU. It's a lie that the EU would put this trade at risk. - so no change to trade What exactly are the benefits of leaving the EU then, if everything is going to stay the same, apart from we won't be able to influence any of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Like Farage and the rest of the UKIP MEPs? I'm sure they'd be delighted to lose their jobs as MEP's if it meant this country was out of Europe. Regards Doom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I'm sure they'd be delighted to lose their jobs as MEP's if it meant this country was out of Europe. So you're not disagreeing they're on the gravy train at the moment? Maybe the EU would be more to our liking if they actually tried to work with them rather than just taking the expenses (which we all pay for) and going to sleep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Just as they currently do then? I'll put it another way to make it clear - ONLY British courts to deal with British human rights using the British legal system. Regards Doom ---------- Post added 21-11-2013 at 22:09 ---------- So you're not disagreeing they're on the gravy train at the moment? I don't recall saying that. Regards Doom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenRivers Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Hang on a minute... According to the pro-UKIP camp: - so no change to immigration - so no change to human rights law - so no change to trade What exactly are the benefits of leaving the EU then, if everything is going to stay the same, apart from we won't be able to influence any of it? I can't see how you got to those conclusions, I can only assume you're mentally challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I can't see how you got to those conclusions, I can only assume you're mentally challenged. That's funny, I've been getting the same feeling about people today too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoroB Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 What exactly are the benefits of leaving the EU then, if everything is going to stay the same, apart from we won't be able to influence any of it? Looking in pure monetary terms, 6% of our contributions go on administrative costs and a further 4.8% is lost through error or fraud. I guess that's around £1.5 billion in benefits there. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/441363/European-Union-fraud-and-errors-cost-taxpayers-800m-last-year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dosxuk Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Looking in pure monetary terms, 6% of our contributions go on administrative costs and a further 4.8% is lost through error or fraud. I guess that's around £1.5 billion in benefits there. I'm pretty sure our own Government can rack up similar levels of incompetence - it's not a perk of EU membership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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