Yorkshire multi-millionaire businessman backs UKIP

[bullerboY]

obviously not all of them

ok smartguy 220 are not now are you happy.

 

---------- Post added 21-11-2013 at 09:43 ----------

 

obviously not all of them

Corrected to make your day.

[Manlinose]

ok smartguy 220 are not now are you happy.:

 

a bit happier than before thank you

 

also 244 voted bnp, 124 voted conservative and 115 voted for the english democrats

 

but your general point was right of course

 

---------- Post added 21-11-2013 at 09:53 ----------

 

ok smartguy 220 are not now are you happy.

 

---------- Post added 21-11-2013 at 09:43 ----------

 

Corrected to make your day.

 

it takes a bit more than that to make my day, but thank you for nudging it in the right direction

[L00b]

Could you enlighten us with details of the trade that would be lost should the UK leave the EU?

A sizeable chunk of the market share may shift to those EU competitors who make equivalent products at comparable price levels, simply to avoid the inevitable import/export red tape that would arise out of the split (however momentarily), and you can bet Brit products would quickly run into all sorts of EU quality compliance delays/requirements (again, however momentarily)

 

I expect German competitors would benefit most, where industrial hardware, cars and the like are concerned.

[BoroB]

A sizeable chunk of the market share may shift to those EU competitors who make equivalent products at comparable price levels, simply to avoid the inevitable import/export red tape that would arise out of the split (however momentarily), and you can bet Brit products would quickly run into all sorts of EU quality compliance delays/requirements (again, however momentarily)

 

I expect German competitors would benefit most, where industrial hardware, cars and the like are concerned.

 

I notice your use of the word 'may' in the first sentence. Nobody knows what will happen.

 

Import/export red tape already exists, a lot of it required by the EU.

 

Quality compliance/delays/requirements works both ways - it affects the UK's exports but also affects our imports (which are greater than our exports).

 

Import red tape/compliance has hardly stopped China's trade prevailing over the rest of the world.

[L00b]

I notice your use of the word 'may' in the first sentence. Nobody knows what will happen.

Indeed, but educated guesses can be had, based on existing EU-based but non-Member States (Norway, Switzerland) and existing trade practices with outra-EU suppliers/markets (US, BRICS).

Import/export red tape already exists, a lot of it required by the EU.

Intra-EU, very little to speak of. But from outra-EU suppliers, indeed...3 tons of it

Quality compliance/delays/requirements works both ways - it affects the UK's exports but also affects our imports (which are greater than our exports).

But that is irrlevant so long as you are talking about intra-EU imports and exports, since these are mostly harmonized through EU legislation, so already as fast/streamlined as you're going to get them for now, across and between EU Member States.

 

Exit the club, though, and you previously EU-compliant exports might suddenly not comply so well, and/nor be as cost-effective to acquire due to additional procedural requirements (which only affect non-EU imports).

 

Of course, you can then choose to reciprocate against EU exporters (make it harder for UK to import their wares)...but it doesn't take a genius to figure out who would quickly lose this particular race to the bottom.

Import red tape/compliance has hardly stopped China's trade prevailing over the rest of the world.

Are you seriously comparing the UK's economical infrastructure to China's? For real?

[BoroB]

Indeed, but educated guesses can be had, based on existing EU-based but non-Member States (Norway, Switzerland) and existing trade practices with outra-EU suppliers/markets (US, BRICS).

Intra-EU, very little to speak of. But from outra-EU suppliers, indeed...3 tons of it

But that is irrlevant so long as you are talking about intra-EU imports and exports, since these are mostly harmonized through EU legislation, so already as fast/streamlined as you're going to get them for now, across and between EU Member States.

 

Exit the club, though, and you previously EU-compliant exports might suddenly not comply so well, and/nor be as cost-effective to acquire due to additional procedural requirements (which only affect non-EU imports).

 

Of course, you can then choose to reciprocate against EU exporters (make it harder for UK to import their wares)...but it doesn't take a genius to figure out who would quickly lose this particular race to the bottom.

Are you seriously comparing the UK's economical infrastructure to China's? For real?

 

It's a two-way street with regards to imports/exports.

 

If the UK did leave the EU I would expect any UK Government to ensure that countries that try to restrict UK exports are treated in a similar vane.

 

As we import more from the EU than we export I'm sure that EU companies/countries would not want to put this trade under threat.

 

With regards to China, last time I looked it was not part of the EU (though it could probably afford to purchase it several times over) but judging by the contents of our Christmas shopping bags their ability to trade with EU countries is not affected by this fact.

[tzijlstra]

Could you enlighten us with details of the trade that would be lost should the UK leave the EU?

 

First to go will be the foreign manufacturers. Investors from outside the EU like coming to the UK because of a friendly corporate tax regime, access to banking and access to the EU.

 

Add to that the talent coming from UK universities (some of the best in the world) and companies relying on a skilled workforce that can speak English will have the UK high on their list of potential targets. --> Nissan is not warning Cameron for nothing.

 

Once the foreign manufacturers stop seeing the UK as a potential base for access to the EU they will start switching to places like Ireland and the Netherlands.

 

Second to go will be the small and medium enterprises that feed these big manufacturers.

 

Banks will suffer because they are no longer benefiting from the UK government protecting their interests in the EU, all their dealings with EU money will become eligible to EU legislation which would already be a lot stricter if it weren't for Cameron continuing to protect the City.

 

The defence industry will suffer. Companies like BAE and Rolls Royce will have some tough decisions to make on how to ensure their position as primary producers for a lot of weapon systems in use in the EU. They will lose a lot of leverage to for example German and French companies.

 

The pound will become a lot more fluctuating, it is now dampened because of the trade with the EU, once that trade starts to suffer the pound will suffer.

 

The UK will have to agree energy deals with places like Russia and the Middle-East on its own, a lot of lobbying is done through the EU currently. Standing alone will make the UK a target for exploitation, it isn't just energy, the same goes for a lot of raw goods that feed the UK economy.

 

UK Universities will suffer because they will no longer be eligible for EU research funding. This will amount to several millions per year lost income for the University of Sheffield alone.

 

Farmers across the country will go bankrupt because they are currently being kept alive artificially through EU grants. This will lead to an increased reliance on the UK importing food stuffs even more than it already does.

 

I'll try and think of a few more, as there are plenty, in the meantime I challenge you to demonstrate I am wrong.

 

PS: the idea of the UK independent seems appealing when looking at countries like Norway and Switzerland, people wrongly think it will be like that. The only reason Norway and Switzerland can afford not to be in the EU is their very specific trades: Norway is overflowing in the energy-sector, natural gas, oil, renewables, it is all there. Switzerland is Switzerland, we all know how they got rich but there is only room for one Switzerland.

[altus]

With regards to China, last time I looked it was not part of the EU (though it could probably afford to purchase it several times over) but judging by the contents of our Christmas shopping bags their ability to trade with EU countries is not affected by this fact.

 

Low wages in China means they can absorb the extra costs of exporting to the EU and still remain competitive. The same doen't apply here - or is it UKIP policy to turn us into a low wage economy?

[RutlandFlyer]

Could you enlighten us with details of the trade that would be lost should the UK leave the EU?

 

Well for starters, eight of our top ten import and export partners are EU member states. Once we leave the EU, trade will become less straightforward with all of them. The effect might only be very small initially, but it's going to be drag that we don't have now, one that will add up, eat into margins and make us less competitive. Even making allowances for the Rotterdam/Antwerp effect (which is a murky thing at best, especially as our trade with the US is inflated by a similar effect), the EU still represents 40% of all our trade. That's an awful lot of trade to be made easier and more profitable by remaining in the EU, and an awful lot to be made more difficult and less profitable by leaving.

 

On a wider scale, the EU represents a massive bloc of trading nations and that makes it very inviting for the rest of the world to deal with - by making an agreement with the EU, they make an agreement with all of those, mostly wealthy, nations. Currently, all we need to do is abide by EU standards and we can be included in all the agreements the EU makes around the world. Leave the EU and it's one agreement for the EU and another for us. They might be very similar agreements, but how many countries are going to bother, when they're getting such a good deal from the EU? How many British firms are going to be passed over for competitors in France and Germany because a trade agreement is in place with the EU, but not us? It's diffifult to say, but it will absolutely happen to some extent and that's only going to hurt us.

 

The biggest problem with the EU argument is that while it's very easy to get outraged about straight bananas and jam not having enough sugar in it, and while it's easy to put a figure on the money we give to the EU, it's far, far harder to put figures on the benefits we get in return. These are small things that make life just a bit easier every time one of our companies deals with the EU, but they add up to big gains. Calculating them accurately would be extremely difficult, a bit like trying to work out how much money Google Chrome saves you because you can type searches straight into the address bar instead of having to go to the Google page first. If and when a referendum happens, it's something the 'Yes' campaign (assuming the question is "should the UK remain in the EU?") will have to pour a lot of money into finding out, because the 'No' campaign will have it so much easier. I suspect they will have a lot of money to throw at it though, because most businesses know what side their bread's buttered on.

[L00b]

It's a two-way street with regards to imports/exports.

 

If the UK did leave the EU I would expect any UK Government to ensure that countries that try to restrict UK exports are treated in a similar vane.

 

As we import more from the EU than we export I'm sure that EU companies/countries would not want to put this trade under threat.

 

With regards to China, last time I looked it was not part of the EU (though it could probably afford to purchase it several times over) but judging by the contents of our Christmas shopping bags their ability to trade with EU countries is not affected by this fact.

You've completely missed/misunderstood the points I made, in my reply to you

 

Thankfully, tzijlstra, altus and RutlandFlyer have since clarified them for you.

 

I bet you'll still miss them though.