Daily Mail: The Church is facing extinction

[angos]

You can tell me why if you like, (I'm sure you can,) but the point is that something is possible.

 

You only have to look at the qualities given to it to understand that it isn't possible, claiming that God exists is like claiming that a Cubular sphere exists or a black white board, everything about God is a contradiction.

 

A loving God wouldn't create imperfect humans in the full knowledge that they will sin and break its commandment, dishing out eternal suffering and damnation for minor indiscretions isn't the work of loving caring God. Therefor God either doesn't exist or it isn't a loving caring God.

[Anna B]

If all religions became extinct that would probably be a mightily good thing.

 

We're back to the beginning again.

 

i think all religion is man made and therefore fatally flawed. It's just a power trip.

 

Spirituality on the other hand is internal, personal, universal and magical.

I believe it greatly enhances our lives and makes us better people.

[SnailyBoy]

I don't know really. A power greater than ourselves.

 

Depends what you define as a power. The Spanish Flu virus had the power to wipe out 100 million people in 1918.

[RootsBooster]

You can tell me why if you like, (I'm sure you can,) but the point is that something is possible.

 

I don't imagine for one minute it's an old man with a beard sitting on a cloud, but at least it's a simple image a child can understand if they need an image at all. It's a confusing enough subject for adults to debate, and little kids need simplicity - it goes along with routine and boundaries and early bedtimes. It gives them security.

 

They have plenty of time to argue and rebel later. Then they can make their minds up what they believe. They will have plenty to chose from.

 

Then why impose such a thing on them in the first place? Your point only works against your argument

[altus]

We're back to the beginning again.

 

i think all religion is man made and therefore fatally flawed. It's just a power trip.

 

Spirituality on the other hand is internal, personal, universal and magical.

I believe it greatly enhances our lives and makes us better people.

Religion is just formalised and organised spirituality.

[Anna B]

You only have to look at the qualities given to it to understand that it isn't possible, claiming that God exists is like claiming that a Cubular sphere exists or a black white board, everything about God is a contradiction.

 

A loving God wouldn't create imperfect humans in the full knowledge that they will sin and break its commandment, dishing out eternal suffering and damnation for minor indiscretions isn't the work of loving caring God. Therefor God either doesn't exist or it isn't a loving caring God.

 

But human beings are an amazing mixture of light and shade, they can chose to be good or bad, (and ironically the bad guys often profit from their dishonesty..) Without that choice they wouldn't be human, they would be robots.

 

I don't think God dishes out eternal suffering for minor indiscretions - that's religion again that thinks it has the right to do that.

The world is an entity which lives and breathes and changes and of which we are only a part. Natural disasters are only disasters for the people who sadly get in the way of life being - well - natural.

Sadly suffering is a fact of life. It can't be avoided. How we deal with it and help each other is the measure of a human being. Simply loving each other comes at a cost - awful pain when it goes wrong or someone dies. But does that mean love is to be avoided or eradicated?

[SnailyBoy]

But human beings are an amazing mixture of light and shade, they can chose to be good or bad, (and ironically the bad guys often profit from their dishonesty..) Without that choice they wouldn't be human, they would be robots.

 

I don't think God dishes out eternal suffering for minor indiscretions - that's religion again that thinks it has the right to do that.

The world is an entity which lives and breathes and changes and of which we are only a part. Natural disasters are only disasters for the people who sadly get in the way of life being - well - natural.

Sadly suffering is a fact of life. It can't be avoided. How we deal with it and help each other is the measure of a human being. Simply loving each other comes at a cost - awful pain when it goes wrong or someone dies. But does that mean love is to be avoided or eradicated?

 

 

So after all that , which on the most part I agree with. Why introduce a god?

[angos]

But human beings are an amazing mixture of light and shade, they can chose to be good or bad, (and ironically the bad guys often profit from their dishonesty..) Without that choice they wouldn't be human, they would be robots.

 

Surely an all powerful God could have given humans infinite good choices to over come that problem, God didn't need to give humans the ability to choose to do bad thing. God also new the choices each person would make before creating them, so why bother creating the people that would ultimately choose to kill good people.

 

 

 

 

I don't think God dishes out eternal suffering for minor indiscretions - that's religion again that thinks it has the right to do that.

So we all get to spend eternity in heaven regardless of our actions on this finite plane of existence.

 

 

The world is an entity which lives and breathes and changes and of which we are only a part. Natural disasters are only disasters for the people who sadly get in the way of life being - well - natural.

Sadly suffering is a fact of life. It can't be avoided. How we deal with it and help each other is the measure of a human being. Simply loving each other comes at a cost - awful pain when it goes wrong or someone dies. But does that mean love is to be avoided or eradicated?

 

Yes I agree with that, the problem I have is that an, all caring, all loving, all powerful, all knowing God wouldn't have created an imperfect world in which suffering was a fact of life. God could just as easily created a perfect world with no suffering.

[Lockjaw]

Who says they are lies? That's even more bigoted than my belief that all things are possible. At least entertain the possibility that you don't know it all.

 

Nobody knows anything for certain, so don't make other people's minds up for them.

 

I was merely extrapolating the suggestion you made in post 64, effectively: threaten them with God to make them be good and by the time they realise it's all Jacksons they're already good so no worries.

 

This is pretty much what happens now. And has been happening for quite a

few years.

 

Working well isn't it?

 

Expand on this, please.

 

 

Incidently, did you see the fuss that was made by parents because many schools no longer have nativity plays at Christmas?

Church attendance isn't necessarily a good barometer of whether people want some religion in their lives.

 

Jacksons again. Did you survey how many of the people objected on religious grounds as opposed to how many, like me, enjoy the nativity play because it's a nice bit of seasonal tradition?

 

Earlier this year I, and a few mates, played some music for some people dancing around a maypole in Pilsley. It was a good lark and I think it would be a shame if the tradition died out, but not because I think wrapping ribbons round a big willy will make sure some people have babies and the strawberries will all ripen nicely.

 

Point is, Anna, plenty of people like the nativity play, easter eggs and dipping their new baby in a nice old stone sink but I am quite confident that relatively few of them believe in the nonsense it is based upon.

[Anna B]

Surely an all powerful God could have given humans infinite good choices to over come that problem, God didn't need to give humans the ability to choose to do bad thing. God also new the choices each person would make before creating them, so why bother creating the people that would ultimately choose to kill good people.

 

God created Human's to have free will, it's one of the main features of being human; the potential for both good and bad, and the freedom to chose which way to go. Think about what the alternative would be like. What would be the point of living at all if everything was already decided and we couldn't learn anything?

Striving to be better is what drives us on, and often when things are at their worst that's when people are at their best. Also part of having a body and psyche is to experience feelings and emotion. How would we appreciate the highs without the lows?

 

So we all get to spend eternity in heaven regardless of our actions on this finite plane of existence.

 

I don't know, to us it doesn't seem fair, but I don't see God as being vengeful.

However I believe you do have to finally face up to the consequences of all your actions, and that can be very painful.

 

 

Yes I agree with that, the problem I have is that an, all caring, all loving, all powerful, all knowing God wouldn't have created an imperfect world in which suffering was a fact of life. God could just as easily created a perfect world with no suffering.

 

I don't think the world is imperfect, I think it's wonderful. It has everything we need and enough for everybody. However again it's the actions of Humans that make it imperfect usually as a result of greed and money.

He also gave us brains and the ability to solve problems but again we don't always use that ability to help people but to help ourselves. I see it as the purpose of life is to help each other and leave the world a better place than you found it.

 

Incidently, maybe he HAS created a perfect place with no suffering, it's called heaven.